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Want to Learn .NET Programming - Is Acryo or John Bryce?


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If you are able to finish a degree, then go for it (college is also good).

Without a doubt, the BA resume will make a better impression than one course or another (even if you have completed your degree on 65).

And your starting salary will probably be higher.

As one who found it difficult to finish his degree because of a lack of success in various mathematical courses (actually I had good grades in programming)

I thought of getting off the idea of ​​being a programmer, because I was sure I would not succeed in the field, because I failed the title.

For sure, it is not mandatory to know calculus / linear / statistics / assemblies / physics in order to be accepted to work as a programmer, and this is from personal experience.

I finished the .NET course. And I started working as a college employee.

I will not dig here with the details, but factually:

I studied in the NET course. In the evening track for more or less two years, I had to work in parallel.

Today I have been working for over two years from the place where I studied (outsourcing)

I develop mainly in WPF, #C.

It's true that it takes time to get a "normal" salary from a programmer, but with respect to thatI have no academic degree and previous experience I was willing to settle for it.


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The fact that not asking for a degree (which is not true in most cases) does not mean that they do not expect you to have the relevant knowledge.

Some people study the material of the title alone. Some people have tried programming (usually called low tech) and then completed the

The mathematical knowledge they lacked.

Do you want to be a software developer or code writer?

If you can elaborate your question further and explain, I will be happy. Right now I'm not sure I know the difference between a software developer and a code writer.

But I will say that my intention is to be "both". I probably want to write the code myself, but the software will build for me and things I think and do.

I imagine that this is a huge team, so there will probably be help from other people who specialize in their things - graphics, math, algorithms, etc.

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^ Are you satisfied with what you are doing?

Even with your difficulty with the mathematical courses, you have received a background in them.

very pleased.

With regard to background in mathematical courses, I never used what I learned in college math courses within the framework of the degree.

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Listen, math is an inseparable part of working as a developer.

It is that you deceived the degree in computer science because you are "worse in mathematics" and may also cast on your success and interest in the field.

Linear algebra, trigonometry, combinatorics, infinities, etc. are constantly present and must at least be understood.

I would say there are not enough jobs A program in which none of these things appear almost never, and if so - in a fairly marginal role.

But there is certainly a connection between mathematical skills and programming skills. So, although there is no correlation of 100%, the probability of someone who is really bad in mathematics will be really good at programming is very low.

I still do not understand why in every place of "jobs" to be programmed in a Dotnet environment or in general in C #, there is not one place that really requires and at all mentions a title.

And yet here everyone says with one mouth that it's on a fence.

Something really does not work out for me.

To make it work out for you - call one or two of them, and ask directly - do they require a degree and / or what are the alternatives. There is no point in throwing guesses into the air.
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I do not underestimate what you say, on the contrary, appreciate the help. The point is, I did a lot of thinking and on the one hand I wanted to be a programmer, but I definitely reject the degree of computer science.

I have gone through a great deal of study and experimentation and I know decisively that a. At the moment I can not get anywhere for a degree in Computer Science (except the Open), and B. Even if I tear my ass for six months - a year, I will fail miserably in this title.

I and math are not good friends, enemies of birth, hate each other's hatred of death, so I know it would be even more waste of 3 years and 30 thousand shekels, than a waste of a year and a half and 20 thousand shekels.

So this discussion opens, because if it's not a course, then it's for me to give up the dream of being a programmer and looking for another direction in life. Because a degree in computer science I am not able to unequivocally and it will be even more waste.

(No, I do not give up in advance, I do not underestimate myself or things like that, I'm very self-conscious and what I am capable of and what I can, and computer science is well beyond what I am capable of).

I read your writing style and dilemmas - and I see myself.

Do not let anyone here make you think you need a degree to program - Bullcrap.

You will learn by yourself, or you will take a course that will direct you in a certain language (always better alone for my taste, you will learn more and you will save the money.)

You do not have to be a math genius to program. And a degree in Computer Science / Software Engineering will make life miserable for you for at least a year and a half and just math until you get to the code.

There are lots and lots of books on the web in any language you like, if you have good English I do not see why you can not learn for yourself.

As for the way to reach professional programming - it's more up to you than the title. I think you can climb from IT to that and get an excellent base of how large corporate infrastructures work (which most programmers do not).

Get yourself up and raise your head, no degree will determine your future - you will determine the future for yourself.

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A degree in Computer Science / Software Engineering will make life miserable for you for at least a year and a half just math until you get to the code.
This specific is not at all true. You learn programming, along with math, from the first semester.
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  • 1 year later ...

I've read most posts in this thread and I have to comment (although it's old)

Maybe what I write will help someone who comes across it again

- I have a degree in computer science

- Experience of 3 years as a software developer in .NET environment

* Say in advance .. probably not all of the things I write are true in 100%! But, I wish I'd seen such a reaction before I started studying. (Invest!)

Degree VS Course

There is no comparison, today a degree is considered more than a course, but!

Those who study such a degree, who will be interested, learn, invest, etc.,

Anyone who did not do it-who would not expect the word "title" to be so helpful.

Degree = a lot of math

Every field has its own body, there are areas like water!

There are areas that deal with this more and less.

Personally, in my profession, I do not really deal with it. It's clear that with simple mathematics I do. But let's say that this is 8% of what I learned in mathematics.

I can say one thing, many ask "Why do I have to study for a degree in computer science

If much of this title is in mathematics? What is the connection at all? "

- A simple answer, high level mathematics "opens your mind" and makes you think differently than those who did not learn mathematics - so yes it helps (in most cases), in my case indirectly.

About course:

Many people in my workplace were without a degree, but with a course ..

And the truth-they were the strongest people in terms of the knowledge I knew.

And I knew of all kinds J

So the question "If you can only succeed with a course" answer - Yes!

The Bottom Line It all depends on the person, if he invests in the field he will succeed,

Advice from me - Invest! Otherwise you will not succeed (I learned it the hard way).

No matter which way you go and where you stand in your life (family, children, age, status, etc.) you will learn and be Cannon In your field.

* A course on a particular topic, such as c # or .net - will be much more comprehensive in order to find a job crisp (80%) for the employment experience that everyone asks.

I'll add something more about a comment I read here about a programmer, and write code, etc.

There is no such thing! A programmer is a person who registers code!

And I'll give an easy example to understand ..

This site-hwzone registered and used with wordpress technology, for knowing to "pick up" such a site - do not have to be a programmer! Why? This site is built on a system (cms) that actually "at the click of a button" has a site.

Whoever built (the son) the system itself .. is the programmer! He wrote down the code, the user who implements the wordpress site only uses the tools they gave him (he does not register the code from 0).

Example of understanding - you have a car, you bought it - you use it, take care of it, etc.

But, you did not create it. There's a car manufacturer.

And just like that, just a lot of people do not realize it (the example I gave on wordpress).

** The most important! There is no formula that works at 100%, the only one that works is: "Invest in and be good at what you do - you'll be successful around the world."

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You said a lot of nonsense. Okay, let's say HWzone is written in wordpress. Then? Where is building a site like HWzone considered high-tech? And to develop the wordpress, do not have to be a programmer?

It's possible that in your niche you do not deal with mathematics, but in many areas it is everywhere. Just recently I wrote an algorithm to test if a point is inside a polygon (which is not actually convex). And more in the Mobile app.

In the high-tech dynamic field, you do not want to get stuck in one niche. Tomorrow there will be layoffs and you will have to look for another job, not sure you will find it easy to find in the narrow area you are good at.

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If you think I've written down nonsense, you'd better keep it to yourself-I'm not making a fool of it:)

* You did not read / understand, what I wrote.

"Okay, suppose-HWzone Write in-wordpress. Then? Where is site setup like HWzone Think high-tech? And to develop the wordpress, You do not have to be a programmer"

- In the context of the comment I read here about "code or programmer" - my answer explained the difference (if I understood correctly the dilemma of who wrote it).

- "Where is site setup like HWzone Considered high-tech"

After all, I wrote, "In order to know how to pick up a site like this, you do not have to be a programmer" - explains himself (and only to explain more - companies for building sites / apps and "hobbies" are considered "high-tech" More and less.

- "And to develop the wordpress, You do not have to be a programmer?"

I did not understand whether you were writing it down as a question or not, so I'll answer you in both directions:

(Quote mine) - "This site is built on a system (cms) that actually" at the click of a button "has a site.

Who built (his son) System Herself .. he The programmer! he Registered the code"- I registered who posted the wordpress system is The programmer.. He He wrote down the code - that is, whoever established the site, no, should not be a programmer.

Who Developed / Developed Wordpress Yes! He is a programmer.

- "It may be that in your niche you do not deal with mathematics, but in many areas it is everywhere"

Here too you are actually quoting me: (quote mine)

" Degree = a lot of math

Each field on its merits, There are areas like water

There are areas that deal with it more and there are fewer."

- "In the high-tech dynamic field, you do not want to get stuck in one niche. Tomorrow there will be layoffs and you will have to look for another job, not sure you will find it easy to find in the narrow area you are good at."

?? I did not say anything about it.


Write down what I've written that is nonsense - make your comment toNonsense. (I have only expressed a rather general opinion on the subject, from my experience and I really have enough experience in the field)

Tip from me: You will learn to respect, listen and understand every person - No Only you are right (in this case you are sure not).

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I do support the title, but you say things that are not true. Some of you are stuck in the "ivory tower" and may not be aware of what goes on elsewhere.

Unequivocally, there are market software developers (or "programmers") who are not graduates of a degree. True, some of them are apparently less concerned with "hi-tech", ie, developing technologies, cores and infrastructures of innovative and advanced systems. I assume that most of them are more dressed on some platform and build on it any applications, business logic, ETL processes, etc.

elellad - I think you exaggerate with the amount of your doubts (as others have also noted). Yes, 20K is a lot of money. But it is not that much money. Even if you "lose" this money, then what? I do not think you'll move into the street. If you do not try, you can not. If you come to it, go for it.

I will mention things that you should be aware of, in my opinion:

- Take into consideration that you need to start "bottom". That is to say, to start working in a place that is not necessarily a high tech company, rather than a particularly good salary (say 6000 - 8000 at first).

- Take into account that you will have to work very hard in your free time to establish knowledge and create a "portfolio". You will start at a disadvantage and you will have to devote a lot of yourself to creating abilities that will make you attractive in the market.

- Keep in mind that you have to wait until you find a job. At this time you may have to try to build And put them in a store, maybe work in something else.

- Keep in mind that the step may fail. No one promises you anything and only the course itself does not promise anything. This course is purely a tool that you will need to use as a starting point - from there you will have to move hard.

- Always (or at least in the first few years) you will be at a disadvantage in front of people with a degree in the field.


post Scriptum

As for which course of the two of them to choose - it is not important in my opinion either.

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This is my quote:


Many people in my workplace were without a degree, but with a course ..

And the truth-they were the strongest people in terms of the knowledge I knew.

And I knew of all kinds.

So the question "If you can only succeed with a course" answer - Yes!"

So yes, I think so too.

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Surely you can succeed without a degree - here, look at Bill Gates or Steve Jobs who have not finished a degree and have done well ...

If you think you are talented at the level of Gates or Jobs - you probably do not really need a degree, but most people are not, and for them the title is the safest (though not the only) way to get a good job in the high-tech and upper middle class No one will come from being an employee).

There are all kinds of people who come to good positions without a degree and those who are especially excellent programmers who do not need the academic degree and experience shows their abilities more than any certificate. For example, veterans of technological units in the army or people who simply engaged in programming projects from a very young age and gained a lot of experience. On the other hand, they also do not need the John Bryce course to know .NET.

Is it possible to be a programmer without an academic degree? Reality proves yes, but everything that Ido.G wrote is true; It will be much harder for you to find a job, and even when you find it, the salary you earn will be significantly lower than what you would earn if you had completed a bachelor's degree at a respected academic institution.

I suggest you open job boards and look at the relevant ads - if you find jobs that do not require a degree and little experience, you are happy. But I do not think there is a surplus of such jobs in the market, the high-tech bubble has been shattered more than a decade ago.

By the way, the choice you make between "bachelor's degree in computer science" and "John Bryce course" is false - there are many fields in the middle that can bring you to a place no less well described in the DM, such as industrial engineering and management, information systems engineering etc. These are broad technological fields, whose approach to advanced mathematics is less profound than that of computer science (all of course need to study calculus and algebra, but not all of them need to learn from calculus, complexity etc.) I recommend you check these tracks as an alternative Computer Science.

skash1z - I can give you the opposite example; There is not one person in my job who does not have a degree, and even if I wanted to recruit someone like that, I would not have been able to do so because this is an HR requirement that can not be circumvented (except for contractor jobs or students).

Therefore, when someone decides to give up an academic degree, he already closes the door to a very large number of companies, and in other companies he will have to compete with other candidates with a degree, so that in every possible scenario he comes from an inferior position.

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(Because no one from the top decile will be hired).
Maybe you mean the top percentile. The top decile is not such a story. The limit is something around the 30 thousand gross. A household where both spouses are hired engineers in a high-tech company gets there quite automatically.
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