Do not disconnect UPS voltage installation Voltage drop "Lightning protector"? Page 2 - Suppliers and Enclosures - HWzone Forums
adplus-dvertising
Skip to content
  • Create an account
  • About Us

    Hello Guest!

     
    Please note - in order to participate in our community, comment and open new discussions, you must join as a registered member.

    Our members enjoy many advantages, including the ability to participate in discussions, enjoy raffles and promotions for members of the site, and receive our weekly content directly by email.

    Do not like being harassed by email? You can register for the site but do not submit your registration to the weekly email updates.

Do not disconnect UPS voltage installation Voltage drop "Lightning protector"?


cxzvcxv

Recommended Posts

save

The lighting equipment of their goddess Ein Hashofet (at least apart from electronic shockers, which are a problem for everyone) is at a very high level. The factory is part of the production system of VS (German company) which are among the best in the world in the field

I've never seen their shield. Link?

lirongl

I also do not care that the only defender I have is to say in his favor is of one company and at such a price ... but right now it's the only one I know that I have something to say for his own good

cxzvcxv

I do not know from inside the defenders you wrote above

Splits if the defense contains (or does not contain) exactly the same things as an independent shield. And it pays more if you already use an independent shield + splitter (from scratch cheaper, and if the shield absorbs something and burns it does not need to replace the splitter)

Shields in 15 NIS - Or at last there are empty boxes in Israel at a reasonable price, or they are simply empty boxes without quotation marks .....

In order to absorb waves, you will work (at a certain point - this is an area where the chances of succeeding to defend are not really high in any case). There is a need for gradual protection on the system - a large shield on the main power board that reduces the possible surge to a certain value, Protects the socket that lowers the remaining bit. The surge absorber components are small, built to the maximum for absorbing this last stage

In home electrical systems, there are no more "primary" surge protectors (supposed to be part of the IEC system), and a small shield on the socket can not be expected to absorb all of the defenses that were supposed to absorb. The surge protection of the socket does not add anything, and from what a defender can give, it is pretty meaningless

Surge absorbers have their own problems: they get hot when they get absorbed or when they get high voltage, and when the shield is asleep and has already been hit a few times, they may start to heat up themselves (on a completely normal voltage) simply because of damage to the components. These components go up in flames quite easily. You sure do not want them to go up in the shield, burn the plastic of the shield, followed by the whole house .....

When surge absorbers are used safely, add a fuse or thermal fuse that will disconnect them (or all that is connected) when the grout absorbers absorb too much. A shield in which there is no thermal protection for the gorging elements for me is simply not safe - it is better to burn the computer, not the whole house (and the computer anyway)

The most important protections of the shield - that is, those who really have a high chance of saving the computer - are the high / low voltage and the delay. These are not based on a component that is supposed to absorb something in place of the computer, but on measuring the voltage and disconnecting it by relaying (like a mechanical circuit breaker) inside the shield. When the relay is turned off the power simply does not go through, and does not damage the computer. These defenses are what you need to look for in a shield. Of course, they protect against the appropriate phenomena - high voltage, low voltage or a series of voltage drops, but not a surge that comes suddenly (the relay takes time to react)

Other shields you said:

GPT (those based on the same PCB I know) - there is no thermal protection on the surge absorber components, no high voltage protection, there is a problem with low voltage protection (the shield may start to turn on and off the relay quickly, ie the shield itself produces voltage drops to the computer ... (When such a thing happened it would have been better without the shield). If there is anything new in the GPT where we fixed the problems, I do not know

Hyundai Model without lag: is without lag, so falls into the category of "empty box"

Hyundai modeled if the delay: do not know, do not say anything about him for better or worse

supco = GPT

Weisbord Lightning and Thunder Plus - There is no thermal protection on the absorption components of the waves

If you want to try to help in the "documentation" of shields, you can open shields that you have and see what goes on there: How is the high / low / delay protection implemented? Values ​​of Surge Absorption Components? The existence of a thermal fuse or a means of protecting the defense components? Does its construction look like it's reasonable for the price or like something you would not plug into an outlet if you could see what was going on there?

Link to content
Share on other sites

  • תגובות 170
  • Opens on
  • Last comment

I once opened a shield like this, I do not know what it's supposed to show and what components I'm supposed to see, so I did not know what I was looking at and immediately closed it : Huh:

How is the defense implemented? Values ​​of absorption of waves? Like Chinese for me : s0432:

I will open tomorrow my new GPT shield that was burned yesterday morning, probably after power outages and I'll upload a picture. His two brothers were not burned.

(The intention is not working anymore, it transmits electricity normally as if it were a standard adapter and not a lightning bolt, there is no suspension and the bulb is permanently red)

Link to content
Share on other sites

none77 - great video

According to what I saw on the Internet, it is sold only through technicians, etc., and not in the stores, so we have to wait for the manufacturer's answer to the purchase ... and the maximum can always be bought through a technician / electrician. If there are many people here who want to buy, :)

By the way on their site http://www.qtrade-intl.co.il/%D7%A9%D7%A7%D7%A2%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99-%D7%97%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%9C.htm Do they register that they also have a shield that has protection for the Internet cable VDPS NET is better? Its protection is "only" 10 seconds .. really need shield for cable ?

I made a tour of the house and found that I had 3 shields (the truth I forgot I had at home at all - if I remember correctly supplied) 4 seconds 100)

2 of http://www.qtrade-intl.co.il/ Recommended 1 VDP protection for 4 minutes and one VDPS protection of 10 seconds

1 of http://www.supco.co.il/ professional with protection of 4 minutes

(I have no idea what I'm looking at so you'll tell me)

Supco - http://imgur.com/a/FYjoM/all

Qtrade VDP - There's a special screw and I do not have a screwdriver like that to open it :/

Q trade VDPS - There's a special screw and I do not have a screwdriver like that to open it :/

Link to content
Share on other sites

Shield for cable The question is how the blow will first come to the Internet cable itself (ie from which infrastructure it will reach the router). What infrastructure You have ? - In case of , There are a few more things you can do or check in front of me that come to the shield

supco = GPT. The circuit inside looks exactly like what I know from GPT protectors, check if the protection components (round oranges) are TVR14431 and if there is one oil if 3 feet then it is TVT14431, if so then it is exactly the same shield

The defenders in the video:

surge_p_1.png

surge_p_2.png

Suspension in case of voltage falls has several meanings:

1

Know when connecting a computer supplier and especially a charger of Electric and there is a spark? The charger has a large capacitor, and it takes a blow of high current when it is charged to the power supply

Some suppliers have a component called a negative temperature coefficient thermistor (NTC) to limit current to prevent damage. NTC is built to limit the current at the beginning (once connected to the power supply) and then go out of operation in order not to limit / interfere with the supplier's work. The NTC limits the current when it is cold, then heats up and stands hot for as long as the power is working

When the voltage falls, the capacitor is quickly unloaded and again empty (and therefore needs to be recharged again), but the NTC is still hot (it takes time to cool down and return to the limit). If the power receives electricity again before the NTC has cooled, the blow of the high current at the beginning will now be much higher (without NTC restriction), and could damage the supplier

2

Even if the NTC works in a supplier where the flow limit is otherwise (and does not need time to cool before restarting), the power always takes a blow of a higher current than when the power is connected. It is built to withstand such a blow, if it does not happen again and again quickly: the other components (except the NTC) that have been hit have warmed up, but they cool down afterwards

If the power receives power for a second, the voltage falls and then returns again in a second, the components are still warm from the first blow - the second will heat them higher. Some blows may be able to heat up a component (not the NTC) to the temperature it burns

3

When voltage falls due to the jump of a circuit breaker or a power failure, the moment the voltage falls, and the moment the voltage returns, it can be accompanied by a surge of tension. The disconnect of the shield during the delay is a mechanical disconnect of relay (in the image of the GPT shield that you opened - the black box), which is equivalent to the disconnection of a manual breaker - it is absolute (on the phase wire that the relay disconnects). Therefore, if a voltage surge occurs while the shield is suspended, the shield will not transfer it

Therefore, the shield's latency should provide:

Preferably: Time for NTC to cool down. I would say something like a minute

Required: Time for components that have received the current shock in the operation to cool down - a few seconds

Preferably: long enough, so if there are some short power outages (of 30 seconds etc.) one after the other, or the voltage goes back to the second and again falls, the shield will remain idle all this time and will not give the computer voltage for a second and will disconnect again. So if power surges are reached, the computer will not be connected at the same time

By these shields of 4 for minutes gives better protection. What's more, if it jumps in a little voltage drop every day, it will bug and in the end you'll just hang it up because it's annoying .... Anyway 10 is also much better than nothing

In the case of electrical appliances that have a compressor (refrigerator), the amount of minutes required is that it takes a few minutes to discharge the pressure of the gas from the compressor. It may simply not move against pressure of gas, and if it receives a voltage and not a motive it warms up - there is a protective component that should disconnect it in such a situation, but if what is the protection fails the compressor can burn

Link to content
Share on other sites

Yes HOT infrastructure .. I would love to hear what can be done ..

By the way, there is also a solution that is installed in a central electrical closet / something that will protect the entire house? If so in the next house we will do it ..

Yes this

TVR14431 can be seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/ADyMt59.jpg (Zoom in to see better), which means that supplies like GPT and Hyundai are out of the question.

The problem is mostly in the winter and only in the winter is as serious as there is now. Which means that maybe a week in a year I will suffer with disconnections. Every few minutes to 4 minutes if yes then it is worth it and the truth even if no second shield will still cut off the power just to 10 seconds instead of 4 minutes for me it does not really matter to me .. important to defense 4 minutes 10 seconds do not really matter to me ..

In my case, the screws were similar to those, and that is why I could not open the q trade because I do not have a suitable screwdriver. Tomorrow I will shoot them and edit the response from above with a picture ..

Link to content
Share on other sites

תמונות

The "empty box" (without delay) of Hyundai and Q protectors:

http://s13.postimg.org/5czah2prp/protectors1.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/3seakfzy9/protectors2.jpg

http://s11.postimg.org/qdtshejtd/protectors3.jpg

The "empty box" of Q protectors: This is the model without high / low voltage protection or delay, if the absorption elements surge only. All the empty places in the electronic circuit are where the other protections are in the VDP and VDPS models. It can be seen that they made an effort to use shock absorption components safely: the silver element between them is a thermal fuse - which burns and disconnects if heated, and the components have a fireproof material

http://s16.postimg.org/4lf364keb/esp1.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/admxdsrjn/esp2.jpg

http://s4.postimg.org/lx82i8g57/esp3.jpg

Hyundai's "empty box": This is a model without high / low voltage or delay protection, if only surge absorbers, the one that was in the video you brought. This circle does not contain places for the components of the other defenses, that is Hyundai's shield if the suspension is based on another circuit - which I have not seen yet. Also in the Hyundai shield, every surge absorber has a thermal fuse for protection (the white component is another type of surge absorber that the shield has decided to add to it.) This element does not need a thermal fuse

By the way: In this shield the "protective" light is not on because the bulb itself is burnt, the shield is normal. There may be this part of the whole series ......

http://s17.postimg.org/eul7ocn4d/hyundai1.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/yoywanotx/hyundai2.jpg

Different shields (from outside .....) of GPT. The circuit inside is almost identical: the shock absorption components without any thermal protection inside a dense plastic box (and the problem with them is that they are unprotected, not that they are TVR / TVT14431 - the component itself is legitimate). The truth is that inside the TVT there is a built-in thermal fuse (this is the third leg), but only the 1 of the components in this shield is TVT. In this case the fuse is used not to disconnect the absorption element from the voltage but only to turn off the LED of "there is protection". ..

The electronic components are a low-voltage circuit and the measurement of the delay time, the black cube is the relay (type of circuit breaker) that cuts off the voltage when the circuit decides to disconnect it

http://s13.postimg.org/ubm49sh9z/gpt1.jpg

http://s3.postimg.org/6ekdd0zg3/gpt2.jpg

http://s15.postimg.org/kcau0l2ob/gpt3.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/av5cv7e0f/gpt4.jpg

http://s15.postimg.org/mxgeo3s23/gpt5.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/oobz7akzt/gpt6.jpg

These are also the type of things that you can expect to find in any other similar shield (whether one plugs into an outlet or one that is built into a strip of sockets etc.), each one and its quality and protections .....

Coax cable of Comes from the outside, and if there is a lightning strike, etc., he passes it everywhere. Therefore, at the point of entry into the house, it should be connected to the soil of the house by connecting a thread of earth from the first splitter to the ground connections of the house, or if there is no splitter that can be dressed,

In addition, a dc block (a small adapter if a threaded connection that connects in a column to the coax cable) can be dressed by connecting the cable to the modem. This significantly reduces the ability of a hit to reach the modem, and accordingly to pass it through the ethernet cables

Absorbing components in the home's electrical panel also provide limited protection, because they are still too small to absorb the large blow that may come from outside. Gradient protection builds from the earlier stages of the system, and if the defense components are much larger

In other words, when one of them gets burned sometimes one has to bring an electrician to clean it, because when it is connected and burned, it does not allow the electricity to be picked up (the switch continues to jump while lifting it and the house without electricity)

These are solutions to electrical systems that were built if the protection is gradual from the ground up, and you can say that you are meant for the factory, etc. - where there is an electrician that strengthens the place, and in my opinion it is "out of place" to push them to a home electrical board

The external shape of your q trade is unknown to me, is this a new model? I know those who look like what's in my picture

There were such screws in it, too, I opened them if Tester was right for the side of the triangle

Link to content
Share on other sites

Ok both are familiar.

helppc 250 Including shipping At the time I bought the model with a delay of 10 seconds, you have to press 3 to the service and say in advance that they will not return to offer a service if they do not want to.

The guy from the reaction I called him I think my father, selling in the 200 model with the delay of the 10 seconds does not make delivery is in Bat Yam, if buying 4 get the fifth free.

050 6561312

They were both nice.

Link to content
Share on other sites

great pictures..

Are there other people here who want to buy a shield? If there are enough people we may be able to get a discount on quantity ..

So how do I encode the web cable / cable of Hot?

I call eager and drive them crazy that I have a malfunction at home and when the technician comes ask him "on the way" to plug DC BLOCK?

Ask him to plug a line of earth?

Do they do it or need a private electrician?

I also think the shield looks different .. I'm important that his defender is not the Q TRADE ..

Here are pictures of me (in pictures I can not quite see but I also have security screws but different from those in you)

http://imgur.com/a/W9WVQ

Link to content
Share on other sites

The external shape of your q trade is unknown to me, is this a new model? I know those who look like what's in my picture

There were such screws in it, too, I opened them if Tester was right for the side of the triangle

This Q Trade is very old. I do not have a screw-length screwdriver, I'm probably not going to be able to open it any time soon

Link to content
Share on other sites

These are things HOT engineers do not do (they are "not supposed")

Connection of the soil - which is the most important of them: each coax splitter has a screw side to connect the soil wire. In the splitter close to the entrance area / electric panel (the easiest one to reach), it must be connected to the land line of the house. If the cable just goes without a splitter, there are 1: 1 adapters that simply have the screw to the ground without splitting the cable that can be put

The dc block is simply a small adapter that plugs into the coax cable. same as http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Coaxial-F-Connector-DC-Voltage-Blocking-In-Line-Coupler-25-7901-14668-/251432963230 - But the price here is completely shattered (component price is normal, but 40 NIS shipping ????) and I did not find one at a normal shipping price. The possible problem if dc block is that it also lowers the signal a bit, and if the system had limits it can bring For a situation where there is no good communication - then it happens that it cannot be used in an existing system (without adding amplification or changing the structure of the system)

These screws can be opened if a flathead screwdriver, if you press it hard enough to screw it, it will catch the screw when it rotates

Link to content
Share on other sites

ארכיון

This discussion has been archived and new comments can not be added.


  • Latest news

  • Buzz-Zone: Everything hot on the net

×
  • Create new ...

At the top of the news:

new on the site