Great power at a reasonable price: Ryzen 7 3700X processors and Ryzen 9 3900X in depth review • HWzone
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Great power at a reasonable price: Ryzen 7 3700X processors and Ryzen 9 3900X in depth review

Meet the new processors

After a wait that looks like eternity, the first 7 nanometer processors come into existence with Ryzne 7 3700X and the octagonal cores, 9 3900X The dreaded 12 processing cores. Let's discover their real strength against competitors!

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The Great Day Of has come. Today the chip developer is officially launching a new and fresh series of processors for which many have waited a long time, with the promise of high performance being there from the start. When an AM4 chassis was launched And my employers In the first place, they have been hit by the fact that home users can finally benefit from 8 processors at fair prices.

Then with the Ryzen 2000 series, gaming capabilities were improved a bit and the need for a processor that could do almost everything was fully realized. Now, with the improved production process of 7 nanometer factory And a host of architectural improvements 3000 comes into being when it is stronger, more diverse and more competitive than ever.

All these processors are suitable for motherboards with a bracket Except the A320 chipset. Of course, it is important to consult about a specific model and its compatibility if necessary.

CPUs 2, or 3000 come with a host of new motherboards based on the chipset . Of course, that does not mean that you have to board New to use these processors. All you need to do is update the BIOS of the previous panel after making sure that it fits into the desired processor and install it on the board.

The way the Ryzen 3000 processors are based on 2 is quite innovative and unlike anything we have seen in the world of processors. Each such processor has a silicon unit that is the IO controller, or if you will, you can even call it a "northern bridge" similar to what we knew until a few years ago. The processing core is connected to the same controller as each processing silicon unit contains up to eight cores. To my employees 3000 most powerful sample 9 3950X has 16 processing cores and is actually the full potential of this technology in the current socket.

So it looks under the lid. The IO controller contains components such as PCI Express 4.0 and USB. Through the Infinity Fabric interface it communicates with the two cores or CCDs that contain the processing cores along with the cache. Through the Infinity Fabric interface, the IO controller is also called the " System.

In processors such as the Ryzen 9 3900X, such as the one in the control, the number of cores is 12, so 3 from 4 cores work in each cores unit in this processor. all The cache remains in full volume.

B- 7 3700X which is a processor that has 8 cores turned off in one whole cores unit.

Here you can see all the processors that go out into the world today. The series begins with the APU processors that contain 3400G and 3200G graphics cores, and continues with the six-core 3600 and 3600X processors, which are octagonal to the new flagship. For now, the Ryzne 3700 3800X has 9 cores Processing.

The prices of the new models are similar to those of the Ryzen 2000 series when they came out last year. Of course since the prices of Ryzen 2000 are in steady decline, but so too These are expected to come in the coming months.

In this review we focus on the Ryzen 7 3700X and Ryzen 9 3900X. Their direct competition is the i7 8700K and i9 9900K respectively. It is important to understand that there are a huge number of uses for desktop processors, but we chose mainly to focus on gaming and some productivity. Of course, when time limits are the main factor in producing these performance tests, we cover more areas and topics to make sure you have the full picture.

Who are you - 7 3700X?

The Ryzen 7 3700X is a processor with 8 cores in a heat envelope of 65W. The typical operation frequency of this processor can reach up to 4,300Mhz when at maximum effort for all cores it is located in the 4,000Mhz region. The processor has a respectable amount of 32MB Third-level cache and 4MB cache Second level cache.

This processor has a relatively low heat envelope of 65W but it comes with Copper Wraith Prism is also suitable for 105W processors. This is a very respectable addition that actually creates a processor in which a body is packed That there is no need to upgrade even to perform Correctly.

The price tag for the Ryzen 7 3700X is $ 329, which is similar to the processor i7 8700K also tested in the review. Of course the advantages are obvious as the addition of 2 processing cores and significantly lower heat emission. This price is similar to the price at which the 7 2700X last year, when it is already at a price level of about $ 255 only.

The processor, of course, has SMT or Simultaneous Multi-Threading technology similar to HyperThreading technology By that Exits two application units and therefore the 16 processor has actual logical cores.

New bar of google - 9 3900X

The Ryzen 9 3900X is the first processor of its kind. It is the world's first processor for a standard home chassis that comes with 12 physical processing cores, On a silver platter. Later in the year, his older brother, 9 3950X Break the peak as the first processor with 16 cores to a standard chassis of motherboards.

The 3900X comes with an 64MB of Third-level cache and 6MB cache Second level cache, quantities we've been used to seeing mostly in server processors. Very respectable.

This processor has a heat shell of 105W and its operating frequency ranges from 3,800Mhz to 4,600Mhz in an effort, depending on the heat emission and the type of effort to the number of cores.

The built-in acceleration algorithm, Precision Boost 2, makes sure that the fewer threads you have to perform, the faster it will be.

The price tag for this processor is $ 499, and it competes directly with 9K's Core i9900 . Of course, the addition of 50% cores to the competitor has positive effects and I believe that in the productivity tests in the audit it seems. The heat sink that comes in the 3900X package is the Wraith Prism as well.

On the new platform - X570

There is a PCI-Express 4.0 X4 channel through which the IO controller connects the processor to the chip set on the motherboard. X570 has a lot of its own IO example 8 ports type 3.2 Gen 2, SATA ports and of course 4.0 slots in the motherboard. How it will appear in the motherboard depends primarily on the manufacturer itself. Will be the one who decides to omit certain connections to allow others on the available traffic line.

Here is the compatibility table between chipsets and processors. For anyone who would like to purchase an X570 board, note that the first-generation Ryzen processors are not officially supported in this chip set. The vast majority of the X370 and B350 panels support the new Ryzen 3000 processors, note the updates on the product page on the site. A320 boards do not officially support processors New ones.

Now is the time to go to the meat and potatoes of the critique - performance tests!


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281 תגובות

  1. I have a question about the R9 3900x processor, how does it stand against the Intel Extreme processors? I know these are processors that are not intended for the home market, but I think it would be justified to compare them to them too.

    1. A few more days will be benchmarks.
      My bet, the 3700 will be slightly better, but it is better to take the 2600 and the 400-500 to upgrade the screen.

  2. I have a Reisen 5 1600x How do I know if my motherboard supports the new Breisen above if you can upgrade to them?

    1. If your board is 370X then in BIOS update you can have all the 8 processors in the ZEN 2 cores
      Above, it will probably be a problem because of the power that the board can give to the processor
      My recommendation is not to upgrade now Wait with this to see how things will be cooked and prices will probably go down
      All followed for the better

  3. Quote of nec_000

    On the other hand, keep in mind that if you buy a B450 board, you will need to update the BIOS to support the 3000 Series processors.

    It is not clear whether it can be performed on this board without the maintenance of the Rijn 1000 or 2000 processor, just to perform the update to BIOs.

    Be very aware of this and do not miss out.

    The board supports BIOS-free update through the Flashback BIOS and USB storage.

    As I recently learned here in the forum, unlike other manufacturers, this capability exists in practice as standard on MSI tables, while in other manufacturers it exists only in premium boards (if any).

  4. Quote of About: blank

    So Intel is not really in trouble, jeopardizing its position in the market

    Hmmm

    It is necessary to be precise in the prophecies of fury (mine) :D

    Intel is in trouble in the home market!

    But we will not predict where it can bring her ....

  5. Quote of About: blank

    The board supports BIOS-free BIOS update via the Flashback and Storage BIOS button USB.

    As I recently learned here in the forum, unlike other manufacturers this ability exists in practice as standard in the boards of MSI While in other manufacturers it exists only in premium boards (if any).

    So this is definitely good news 👍

    You did not make a mistake when you declared that Intel was in trouble. They are in trouble: they are in engineering inferiority at the moment and they have no immediate answer in the development line. This is in addition to the chaos in other areas.

    The question is how all this is manifested in the field. Even in the gaming or graphics market (including video editing) you can already see comments from people who announce that Intel still leads because in some performance test it won (even if they compare 990K to 3700X).

    So you really did not make a mistake, only that reality is more complicated.

  6. Quote of mzn

    If I held up to a fourth year with a title Intel i3 3120M, I can hold some more.😓

    Quote of mzn

    If I held up to a fourth year with a title Intel i3 3120M, I can hold some more.😓

    Quote of About: blank

    Prophecy, as we know, was given to the fools, but nevertheless I will present here with a slight forecast. I doubt that Intel Recover within a year.

    Perhaps not within a year (although there is a potential for significant improvement also in this time span) but it probably will not take about a decade as it took AMD (and I've already noted that).

  7. Quote of nec_000

    So there is no justification in view of the cost-benefit of purchasing the 3200, but it is better to purchase the affordable 3000.

    Then speed it to 3200. Even if these chips are of poor quality and will not allow this light speed (unlikely, but there is a chance bracelet), the loss of performance in the ReSign Generation 3 architecture is negligible so the risk here is also low.

  8. ^ Exactly 👍

    Exploits the opportunity to update,

    Which I have just visited on the TMS website, it turns out that they sell the ryzen 3600 processor on 880 NIS.

    A quick check indicates that this is the same price that we would get the processor anyway if we invited it from Amazon and Co..

    As proof, the price of Amazon (which was in stock) was 199 $, plus delivery just say $ 8, this is 207 $. Plus 17% VAT

    (There is no exemption from VAT at this price level - this is above $ 75) and 242.3 $ and 3.6 conversion are $ 872.

    It comes out where TMS pricing is great (880 NIS) and did not charge us an "excessive price premium" as is common in our region.

    This means that it really does not matter at the moment if the processor is ordered in a balance (let's say it's in stock), because there's the price

    This is available for purchase here under the hand in the country.

    The question is only full status (if any). Kirill - You are welcome to update your friends right to relax, whatever is available

    From the Rizen 3000 series on your shelf.

  9. Quote of nec_000

    The question is only full status (if any). Kirill - You are welcome to update your friends right to relax, whatever is available

    From the Rizen 3000 series on your shelf.

    Only on the previous page you recommend waiting for a quarter,

    If not two before you buy the new processors !!!

    And now, "Kirill told us about the stocks?" : nixweiss:

  10. Quote of About: blank

    Prophecy, as we know, was given to the fools, but nevertheless I will present here with a slight forecast. I doubt that Intel Recover within a year

    The ink has not yet dried on our prophecies ... :D

    And here, there is a counter-reaction that I will bring her by the name of her saying -

    Quote of napoleon45

    Only on the previous page you recommend waiting for a quarter,

    If not two before you buy the new processors !!!

    And now, "Kirill told us about the stocks?" : nixweiss:

    This is because:

    Not everyone listens to my recommendation, and for them you should be ready for an option on the table as well.

    As proof, we had a forum member who asked and inquired about 3600. If the friend is not patient in waiting,

    At least he knew what options of inventories are available for purchase right now.

    Every experienced professional manager knows that the project needs to prepare a response / answer / alternative for each case scenario - even for the case that is the least ideal.

    They call it managing risks and preparing alternatives. Woe to those who plan only one alternative, since in case it does not take place, the project has fallen.

  11. Yes, risk management or not, these are two different positions.

    If I had not asked, and even now, it's confusing.

    And that 's what' s dangerous.

  12. Now with the new light that Intel is reacting to, again, and like in the last rounds it did against Rizan 1 and 2,

    This time by issuing a new series (series 10), through which it reduces prices and adds

    Another SKU up to look directly at the new 3900 flagship,

    This is another reason that strengthens my recommendation to wait at least one quarter.

    Although the source of the recommendation was because of the opportunity to iron the childhood ills of a new product,

    Now the recommendation is reinforced by Intel's response to the alignment of its processor prices.

    The price of 330 $ will be launched in the new octagonal 10 Series, which is rebadged 9900k.

    Then the competition will be head to head - octagonal cores facing octagon at the same price.

    In such a case the reviews will begin to tell a more interesting psalm. That's what I'm waiting for.

    I recommend you wait with me.

  13. And I say what I said in the discussion that it appears there -

    What suits you? Regulation!

    There's no point in waiting for this endless ping-pong.

  14. Quote of napoleon45

    The ink has not yet dried on our prophecies ... :D

    And here, there is a counter-reaction that I will bring her by the name of her saying -

    Not exact.

    There are periods of stagnation and stagnation, the so-called period between the straits,

    And there are periods of war-when the two drivers with a heavy foot on the gas pedal press all the way,

    Do everything to try to circumvent each other.

    In such periods (when the race is very fast), if it is not necessary, it is better to stand aside and wait for it to calm down

    The intense action, and we will know at the end (when everything has settled down already) who won. Then choose it.

    At the moment we are at the height of a giant race, I sit on the sidelines and study competition as an observer

    From the side for free (that the state radio station is free of charge - what a pleasure).

    When the fire is over, when the flames go out and the smoke fades away, I will move the winner from the floor at a cheap price

    Then exhausted and exhausted. Like an eagle waiting for his victim to reach his plate effortlessly.

  15. Quote of nec_000

    Like an eagle waiting for his victim to reach his plate effortlessly

    It does summarize your philosophy!

    Everyone will decide what suits him ... ..

    To be an eagle or ... "The orderly of nature".

  16. I have some pearl to share:

    From the experience of my life I have learned that it is wise to stand aside and simply learn from those who went before me, since it is best not to reinvent the wheel,

    But to use the wheel that already exists in nature and is only the result of many years of knowledge and experience that preceded us.

    To examine which one (of the procedures) is the best of all relevant, and copy his model.

    For example, females standing on the side let the males quarrel between them, and whoever wins, go to him.

    The vultures let others drive and kill animals, and then they come without truth and take the spoils.

    Nature is an evolutionary perfection of billions of years and it is not mistaken.

    The waiting model from the side to find the best survivor of all, after the competition ended (a period between the straits)

    Is the model I found most intelligent for me. That's why I share it.

    He has been working as a practical practitioner in my career. I went through quite a few hardships, systems, and people.

    Great patience, wisdom, waiting, careful planning and proper timing are key. Copy from nature. It works.

  17. After a few days of searching there are answers : )https://techgage.com/article/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-ryzen-9-3900x-workstation-performance/

    And there's also a performance report on Linux. There, too, the answer is clear.

  18. Quote of nec_000

    I have some pearl to share:

    From the experience of my life I have learned that it is wise to stand aside and simply learn from those who went before me, since it is best not to reinvent the wheel,

    But to use the wheel that already exists in nature and is only the result of many years of knowledge and experience that preceded us.

    To examine which one (of the competitors) is the most successful in the relevant aspect, and to copy his model.

    For example, females in nature work in tribes or communities, standing on the sidelines and waiting - allowing males to quarrel among themselves,

    And whoever wins, goes to him. Nature made them understand that the conductor had the qualities that were best for them.

    The vultures let others sweat and prey, and then they come effortlessly and take the spoils.

    The vultures that operated differently, for example, tried alone and risked their way to extinction. Consequently, they were not genetically inherited

    This feature. On the other hand, the eagles who stood by and ate carcasses that others tried to risk catching,

    Survived, and therefore were left with this genetic charge. Nature is an evolutionary perfection of billions of years, he is not mistaken.

    The wait-by-side model for finding the best survivor from Intel to I HAVE D, After the competition was over

    And began a period of "between the straits," meaning that there is stagnation (rest until the next war), is the model I found

    The most intelligent for me. Even in the purchase of work. That's why I share it.

    He is found working in practice in my career. I went through quite a few hardships, systems, projects

    And people. Murray in my career taught me these things. Great patience, wisdom, waiting, and careful planningtiming Right

    They are the key. Copy from nature. It works.

    If I am impulsive and impatient, for example when a new toy comes to buy it on the grounds that I feel like it,

    Or because I can, it's a stupid decision to my perception. A decision that takes into account no planning and no factor

    In the equivalent system. No thanks, does not suit me.

    I copy from my professional career the same proven and proven methods of managing projects

    Management of people, and management of systems, as well as my decisions in my personal life. That's how good it works.

    We'll see an opposite example of why to buy, even though you do not have to, I do:

    Because of the mess in the state budget and the large deficit that comes up, the treasury is trying to fight with the tools it has.

    For example, they decided to cancel the significant assumption of the tool vehicle The Breidys started from 1.1.2020.

    I have vehicle Heidi and replace him in the rebound every time, even though he does not have to

    Because he is only two years old, I have advanced the process of replacing him with a new one right now, in order to buy and buy

    As part of the current taxation, which is still prioritizing the Berid vehicles.

    So here's an example of where planning and scheduling a purchase plays the role of prudent and intelligent.

    Sometimes the timing finds it right to go ahead, and sometimes finds it right to put off. Case by case.

    The barricade vehicle was right ahead because of the change in tax misuse, while a new CPU processor at this time is prudent to defer

    Because of the competition that is going to respond. So let's see what competition produces before we make a decision.

    ** I mean - provided we have the time to make the decision quietly and calmly. The person who burned the computer

    And must immediately purchase new to replace it, that's something else of course.

    I have reservations:

    1. If you are a man of work and the new computer speeds up your work capacity significantly for example Render rate, kimpole and similar factors then your production capacity increases and then the purchase is actually a work tool yields and then the calculation varies according to your ability to perform more against cost.

    2. If your desire for performance in games, for example, gives you pleasure, maybe you can build an Excel perperation improvement percentage and then decide if your fun is worth the move.

    And for the avoidance of doubt. My gaming computer is RASPBERRY PI 3 Running RETRO PI and it gives me great pleasure : )

  19. Indeed, what you raised in the first section is correct. But not on

    This was the case I was talking about. My case is a home computer

    That nothing is burning for us and we are happy to upgrade within

    The interest of maximizing the benefit to money spent. Remember

    Your slave is still on 2500k and he does not upgrade not because can not,

    Can bubble, except that there is no practical need useful in upgrading.

    At work I constantly invite new servers and monsters

    In millions. Because that name is indeed due to an operational need. Part

    Of servers have reached the limit when parameters

    Show real saturation in the monitor. The io ran out first and long

    To the point of experiencing an impairment in operational performance and falls.

    The processors are also in some cases scraping 100 percent

    utilization. It is a real and measurable need. The new servers let us breathe. The io no longer exceeds 10-20

    Percentage of utilization of new machinery. The processors do not pass

    33 percent. We bought industrial quiet for the next five years plus or minus.

    Another need is the completion of service and warranty for servers

    The old ones, some of them in the status of the end of life. So upgrade

    It is necessary for this reason.

    On the way we gained a dramatic miniaturization of the PP factor

    10 is more computational power per server volume unit. This allows

    Reduced storage space for servers with logistic ease. Download

    Cut in electricity consumption and heat production. For example in the compound

    External DR We pay Renate Kilowatt electricity.

    And there it is very expensive. Over 100 thousand per month.

    Upgrading the servers and downloading the footprint are cheaper for us

    Monthly the cost in this compound and already alone justify

    The new procurement.

    This is the difference between a professional business sector and its implications, which are different from PC to home.

    This is why the TAM in serotonin has increased exponentially

    While we have been staring at my home for nearly a decade.

    In the id market there is a real need for big time and progress, in the sector

    The second is nice to have but is not particularly necessary.

  20. Quote of nec_000

    Indeed, what you raised in the first section is correct. But not on

    This was the case I was talking about. My case is a home computer

    That nothing is burning for us and we are happy to upgrade within

    The interest of maximizing the benefit to money spent. Remember

    Your slave is still on 2500k and he does not upgrade not because can not,

    Can bubble, except that there is no practical need useful in upgrading.

    At work I constantly invite new servers and monsters

    In millions. Because that name is indeed due to an operational need. Part

    Of servers have reached the limit when parameters

    Show real saturation in the monitor. The io ran out first and long

    To the point of experiencing an impairment in operational performance and falls.

    The processors are also in some cases scraping 100 percent

    utilization. It is a real and measurable need. The new servers let us breathe. The io no longer exceeds 10-20

    Percentage of utilization of new machinery. The processors do not pass

    33 percent. We bought industrial quiet for the next five years plus or minus.

    Another need is the completion of service and warranty for servers

    The old ones, some of them in the status of the end of life. So upgrade

    It is necessary for this reason.

    On the way we gained a dramatic miniaturization of the PP factor

    10 is more computational power per server volume unit. This allows

    Reducing the storage space of servers that facilitate logistics. Download

    Cut in electricity consumption and heat production. For example in the compound

    External DR We pay rents per kilowatt electricity.

    And there it is very expensive. Over 100 thousand per month.

    Upgrading the servers and downloading the footprint are cheap

    Monthly the cost in this compound and already alone justify

    The new procurement.

    This is the difference between a professional business sector and its meanings, which are different from a computer PC to house.

    This is why the TAM in the world of servers has grown exponentially

    While the domestic sector has been shrinking for nearly a decade.

    In the one market there is a real need for big time and progress, in the sector

    The second is nice to have but is not particularly necessary.

    A home computer also suffers from the same problem in my opinion.

    Of course, if it is intended for Office, the problem is smaller, but the home computer of a Strimmer or a Gamer also suffers from a decrease in performance (or an increase in requirements) of the tools it uses. Then if there is a penny in his pocket there is no reason to reject it. That always in a few months will be better / faster etc. The ability to stream while playing 2K on 144HZ is a reason to upgrade.

    I have a theory that is similar to Moore's law. A computer always comes up and costs about $ 2500 for a perfect perfect system. It keeps itself since my first Mac (and before it was a cheap wik) just have to decide when fed up and want to boost performance.

  21. My experience has taught me that while I was a child in the 70 and 80 and computers came up with sums similar to those you described around 2500 $,

    Even if the $ 4000 depended on the composition you bought, then you really could not buy less because there was no variety and wide range of products like today,

    Especially not in the cheapest spectrum of the map. And by the way 2500 $ of 30-40 years ago it was worth several times as of today. It was a salary of several months.

    But today after the 30-40 year, the domain has evolved and expanded so that there are certainly reasonable base systems (no screen) already in the area code

    500 $ a new price, and they meet a significant portion of the consumer audience. By the way, another thing that exists today and was not then, is such a wide and varied market

    Until it developed into a secondary market of 2 hand. And is a very large market today, the traffic is not negligible. Especially at the global level.

    Let's take the nec family as a representative example:

    Here are all the computers in my house today (except my own) are computers that I picked up at a very cheap price. There are a lot of quad core cores in the house

    Sunday to Wednesday. I picked up these systems not on 500 $, but maybe in NIS 500. (Extensive details about inventory and prices are available

    In the thread of the desert on the second hand here in the forum - for those who are interested, such as a processor cost me 50 chess. Mother board the same amount, etc ...).

    I see my children playing everything from hand to hand, starting with fortnight, continuing with mine craft, and all kinds of sim city simulators and co ...

    And I have to share that on these machines like i5 2400 or i7 920 combined rx580 accelerators, on Samsung 1080p 60hz screens and professional dell

    (Which also purchased 2 hand in real divorced) they get an excellent gaming experience. I do not see the 11 daughter (soon 12) or the son

    The son of the 6 complains or complains.

    For them, they are on Olympus VII. I watch them from time to time and definitely understand why. The games run smoothly, zero, but zero stuttering.

    I have installed balanced systems, robes in critical layers (operating system memory and IO), no less than the 60hz sync they need.

    And if I cancel vsync I am glad to discover that the FPS is often (depending on the game) flying over 100 without a problem. This means that there is another supplier redundancy.

    The meaning of what I explain, in response to what you have written, is that in practical practice, because the field has become so sophisticated and costs have fallen to the floor,

    It's no problem now to enjoy a gaming machine on the kipak with no money. I know how to do this when used really at the price of scraping scraps off the floor,

    When (perhaps) other hobbies are less amateur like 2's hand, they know how to do it in new purchases in the 500 $ area. And it's also good enough and cheap and practical.

    Even for myself, I do not buy a new machine on 2500 $ because it does not give me any better gaming experience than I have.

    Son, I do not sit on the side and try to convince myself to make do with so little, so narrowly, except that with 2500K and 1080TI I called 2 in 1150

    Six months ago, I really get a great game experience, in every normative game that is programmed properly - these are the only things I deal with.

    I think,

    That the pattern of thought that holds a considerable number of consumers, that if they do not have any 2-3 years a new machine in 2500 $, then the game

    Their decreases significantly. These people hold this perception not because they examined it seriously, but because they apparently read too much material that is a marketing presentation

    In disguise pretending to be an innocent review reporter, or taking the opinion of a computer shop clerk (and I was witness to some such conversations) that the seller

    Mocking the purchaser brazenly, or the seller himself layman in the field and there is no shortage of them unfortunately.

    In professional reality, it works completely differently.

    The same thing happens in every consumer area, whether it's a car, a smartphone, or a garment. On this impulse of renewing all the time because a lot around are doing so,

    Or that there is an entire industry that aims to push for the mentioned consumption, the consumer industry is rolling billions and the wheels of the world economy are progressing.

    I'm not against it, it's not my problem. But only presents the right angle of view and the right professional information. That the wise reader will also be exposed to this angle of vision, which is not certain

    Which is accessible to her on a daily basis. Because it is not in every corner, no one has an interest in transferring it. In order to reach it, you have to find old donkeys

    As nec in some esoteric forum. Like finding a needle in a haystack-but really.

    I have already said, nec is the enemy of hardware manufacturers and marketers of new, that is spurring buy from them as little as possible. He gives a lecture if not a wash

    A mind about maximizing the value of money, about conservative and meticulous consumerism, of buying only when it really needs to, and only what is necessary and not beyond.

    This gap between need and purchase without need is the essence of the Torah. The vast majority of human consumers fall into this section.

  22. Quote of nec_000

    My experience has taught me that while I was a child in the 70 and 80 and computers came up with sums similar to those you described around 2500 $,

    Even if the $ 4000 depended on the composition you bought, then you really could not buy less because there was no variety and wide range of products like today,

    Especially not in the cheapest spectrum of the map. And by the way 2500 $ of 30-40 years ago it was worth several times as of today. It was a salary of

    How many months. I still remember my father (who was an industrialist) and therefore enjoys a slightly higher economic power than the average population in Israel,

    Is still doing eighths in the air only to find funding for a home computer (especially for his small son, the 5, who will be exposed to him at an early age

    As much as possible). A computer for the home, while the nearest geographically closest computer was probably only a distance of 10 km.

    Few people could or did understand the meaning of a computer.

    But today after 30-40 a year, the field has evolved and expanded so that there are certainly reasonable base systems (no screen) already in the region

    The new $ 500 dial price is a great deal for consumers. By the way, another thing that exists today and was not then, is such a wide market

    Varied and sophisticated until it developed into the secondary market of 2 hand. And is a large market today, the traffic is not negligible.

    Especially at the global level.

    Let's take the nec family as a representative example:

    Here are all the computers in my house today (except my own) are computers that I picked up at a very cheap price. There are masses of square cores in the house

    Section i core Sunday to Wednesday. I raised these systems not on 500 $, but maybe in NIS 500

    And the prices are found in the thread of the desert on the second hand here in the forum - for those interested, such as a processor cost me 50 chess. Motherboard him

    Amount, etc. ...)

    I see my children playing everything from hand to hand, starting with fortnight, continuing with mine craft, and more sim simulators

    Co. ... and I have to share on these machines like 5 or i2400 i7 920 combined with rx580 boosters, on Samsung 1080p 60hz screens

    and- Dell Professional (also purchased by 2 hand in real divorcees) they get a good gaming experience. I do not see the daughter of the 11 (anymore

    Slightly 12) or the son of the 6 complain or complain.

    For them, they are on Olympus VII. I watch them from time to time and definitely understand why. The games run smoothly, zero,

    But zero stuttering. I have installed balanced systems, robes in critical layers (operating system memory And IO), which do not fall

    Of what 60hz sync they need. And if I cancel vsync it reveals to my delight that sometimes the FPS (depending on the game) passes over 100 without

    A problem. This means that there is another supplier redundancy.

    The meaning that arises from what I explain, in response to what you have written, is that in practical practice, because the field has become so sophisticated

    And the costs have gone down to the floor, it's no problem now to enjoy a gaming machine on the kipak with no money. I know how to do this in the used

    Really at the price of scraping scraps off the floor, when (perhaps) other hobbies and less amateur like me of 2 hand, know to do this in the purchase

    New in the $ 500 area. And it's also good enough and cheap enough from a practical point of view (certainly far from the $ 2500 price).

    Even myself do not buy a new machine on 2500 $ because it does not give me any better "gaming experience" than I have.

    Son, I do not sit on the side and try to persuade myself to settle for so little, so narrowly, except that with 2500K and 1080TI

    In the 2 hand at the 1150 chess six months ago (a bargain price it was), I really get a great gaming experience, in every normative game

    Which is programmed properly - and these are the only things I deal with.

    I think,

    That the pattern of thought held by a considerable number of consumers, that if they do not have every 2-3 years a new machine in 2500 $, then stems

    The fact that their game experience is going down significantly - those who hold this perception not because they tested it seriously, but because apparently

    Read too much of a marketing presentation disguised as an innocent review, or take a review from a computer store vendor

    (And I would witness from the sidelines to some such conversations) that either the seller deceives the buyer brazenly, or that the seller himself is a layman in the field

    And there is no shortage of them unfortunately.

    In professional reality, it works completely differently.

    The same thing happens in every consumer area, if it is vehicle, A smartphone, or a garment. On this impulse of renewing all that time a lot

    Around it, or because there is an entire industry whose sole purpose is to push for the mentioned consumption, the consumer industry rolls billions

    And the wheels of the world economy are progressing.

    I am not against, this is not my "problem". But only presents the right angle of vision and professional information. That the intelligent reader will be exposed to this angle of vision

    Also, the one that is not safe is accessible to her every day. Because it is not in every corner, no interested party to transfer it, it has no voice representative.

    In order to reach it, we need to locate old donkeys like nec in some esoteric forum. It's like finding a needle in a haystack - but

    really.

    I've already said, NEC is the enemy of new hardware and reseller manufacturers, because it spurs buying from them as little as possible. he

    Delivers a lecture if not a real brainwashing, about maximizing the return to money, about conservative and meticulous consumerism, of Kenya only

    When really needed, and only what is needed (not beyond). Of educated and educated Kenya.

    This gap between need and purchase without need is the essence of the Torah. The vast majority of human consumers fall into this exact same category.

    And only to balance the picture, I will share that I am replacing the car (my main) in the family, so far and since 2011 at least, every two years Punket

    On the clock, in a new vehicle. Then some will raise their eyebrows and say that this is an anti-thesis. But for my part, I will answer that if it really matters why

    Works like that, so can and gladly. Since, unlike a purely consumerist polemic, in this case I do so for reasons of rationality,

    After being exposed to them, details, and numerical calculations, the picture connects clearly.

    Hint - not just all leasing vehicles and rental companies are replacing vehicle All 2-3 years in the new. There is a justified economic and commercial reason for this.

    There is an economic calculation formula that shows this.

    My motorcycle with me will celebrate 19 year in October : ): )

  23. Quote of nec_000

    My experience has taught me that while I was a child in the 70 and 80 and computers came up with sums similar to those you described around 2500 $,

    Even if the $ 4000 depended on the composition you bought, then you really could not buy less because there was no variety and wide range of products like today,

    Especially not in the cheapest spectrum of the map. And by the way 2500 $ of 30-40 years ago it was worth several times as of today. It was a salary of

    How many months. I still remember my father (who was an industrialist) and therefore enjoys a slightly higher economic power than the average population in Israel,

    Is still doing eighths in the air only to find funding for a home computer (especially for his small son, the 5, who will be exposed to him at an early age

    As much as possible). A computer for the home, while the nearest geographically closest computer was probably only a distance of 10 km.

    Few people could or did understand the meaning of a computer.

    But today after 30-40 a year, the field has evolved and expanded so that there are certainly reasonable base systems (no screen) already in the region

    The new $ 500 dial price is a great deal for consumers. By the way, another thing that exists today and was not then, is such a wide market

    Varied and sophisticated until it developed into the secondary market of 2 hand. And is a large market today, the traffic is not negligible.

    Especially at the global level.

    Let's take the nec family as a representative example:

    Here are all the computers in my house today (except my own) are computers that I picked up at a very cheap price. There are masses of square cores in the house

    Section i core Sunday to Wednesday. I raised these systems not on 500 $, but maybe in NIS 500

    And the prices are found in the thread of the desert on the second hand here in the forum - for those interested, such as a processor cost me 50 chess. Motherboard him

    Amount, etc. ...)

    I see my children playing everything from hand to hand, starting with fortnight, continuing with mine craft, and more sim simulators

    Co. ... and I have to share on these machines like 5 or i2400 i7 920 combined with rx580 boosters, on Samsung 1080p 60hz screens

    and- Dell Professional (also purchased by 2 hand in real divorcees) they get a good gaming experience. I do not see the daughter of the 11 (anymore

    Slightly 12) or the son of the 6 complain or complain.

    For them, they are on Olympus VII. I watch them from time to time and definitely understand why. The games run smoothly, zero,

    But zero stuttering. I have installed balanced systems, robes in critical layers (operating system memory And IO), which do not fall

    Of what 60hz sync they need. And if I cancel vsync it reveals to my delight that sometimes the FPS (depending on the game) passes over 100 without

    A problem. This means that there is another supplier redundancy.

    The meaning that arises from what I explain, in response to what you have written, is that in practical practice, because the field has become so sophisticated

    And the costs have gone down to the floor, it's no problem now to enjoy a gaming machine on the kipak with no money. I know how to do this in the used

    Really at the price of scraping scraps off the floor, when (perhaps) other hobbies and less amateur like me of 2 hand, know to do this in the purchase

    New in the $ 500 area. And it's also good enough and cheap enough from a practical point of view (certainly far from the $ 2500 price).

    Even myself do not buy a new machine on 2500 $ because it does not give me any better "gaming experience" than I have.

    Son, I do not sit on the side and try to persuade myself to settle for so little, so narrowly, except that with 2500K and 1080TI

    In the 2 hand at the 1150 chess six months ago (a bargain price it was), I really get a great gaming experience, in every normative game

    Which is programmed properly - and these are the only things I deal with.

    I think,

    That the pattern of thought held by a considerable number of consumers, that if they do not have every 2-3 years a new machine in 2500 $, then stems

    The fact that their game experience is going down significantly - those who hold this perception not because they tested it seriously, but because apparently

    Read too much of a marketing presentation disguised as an innocent review, or take a review from a computer store vendor

    (And I would witness from the sidelines to some such conversations) that either the seller deceives the buyer brazenly, or that the seller himself is a layman in the field

    And there is no shortage of them unfortunately.

    In professional reality, it works completely differently.

    The same thing happens in every consumer area, if it is vehicle, A smartphone, or a garment. On this impulse of renewing all that time a lot

    Around it, or because there is an entire industry whose sole purpose is to push for the mentioned consumption, the consumer industry rolls billions

    And the wheels of the world economy are progressing.

    I am not against, this is not my "problem". But only presents the right angle of vision and professional information. That the intelligent reader will be exposed to this angle of vision

    Also, the one that is not safe is accessible to her every day. Because it is not in every corner, no interested party to transfer it, it has no voice representative.

    In order to reach it, we need to locate old donkeys like nec in some esoteric forum. It's like finding a needle in a haystack - but

    really.

    I've already said, NEC is the enemy of new hardware and reseller manufacturers, because it spurs buying from them as little as possible. he

    Delivers a lecture if not a real brainwashing, about maximizing the return to money, about conservative and meticulous consumerism, of Kenya only

    When really needed, and only what is needed (not beyond). Of educated and educated Kenya.

    This gap between need and purchase without need is the essence of the Torah. The vast majority of human consumers fall into this exact same category.

    And only to balance the picture, I will share that I am replacing the car (my main) in the family, so far and since 2011 at least, every two years Punket

    On the clock, in a new vehicle. Then some will raise their eyebrows and say that this is an anti-thesis. But for my part, I will answer that if it really matters why

    Works like that, so can and gladly. Since, unlike a purely consumerist polemic, in this case I do so for reasons of rationality,

    After being exposed to them, details, and numerical calculations, the picture connects clearly.

    Hint - not just all leasing vehicles and rental companies are replacing vehicle All 2-3 years in the new. There is a justified economic and commercial reason for this.

    There is an economic calculation formula that shows this.

    Sounds interesting, what economic explanation to replace every two years a new vehicle? If so, why not replace a two-year-old used car every two years?

  24. Quote of giliep

    Sounds interesting, what economic explanation to replace every two years vehicle New? And if so, why not change every two years vehicle Used two years old?

    The reasons are based on the following tactical points and I will go over the main points in order to expand the scope:

    A. Depreciation tables (ie, price lists) are distorted. The distortion is that the price list does not reduce enough value at the beginning of the vehicle's life,

    And on the other hand lowers too much value down the road. A distortion is created in that the vehicle does not lose significantly greater depreciation

    In the first and next years, as was expected to happen. This is a mathematical bias that is in favor of new car buyers.

    There is more to my heart than a feeling that Yitzhak Levy, who holds a cartel on the market and its prices, is working hand in hand with the large fleets and all with the aim

    To preserve their value as much as possible, in order to make it easier for them to dispose of used stock at the best price possible.

    Since for them every percentage is millions, and therefore very critical. It is reasonable to assume that they are transferring to Yitzhak Levy what is needed, and he is doing for them

    The service he knows best. If this is the case, then I prefer to ride this biased wave in favor of new buyers.

    B. When you sell a vehicle that is two years old, unlike the 3, for example, the private seller enjoys a relative advantage over most of the market

    Which is a market based on leasing and leasing companies, of which the typical and main age is 3. In fact most of the vast majority of the market

    Which are used by 3, 70 and XNUMX. These vehicles are located in the fields of Shlomo Sixt, Alvar, Eldan & Co..

    If a car salesman waits until the third year of the car, unfortunately he will enter the period that is not good for him and this competition

    Direct against car fleets. His difficulty getting rid of the car will increase significantly, because the plots are making low prices, they are straightening line

    And they paint a knock on the car, they put tires and a new battery (even if it's Chinese garbage I would not touch with a stick from a shower).

    They carry out what is called the straightening of a cosmetic line in divorcees, something that our private groves do not fit into.

    But the broad crowd that is looking for a 3 vehicle does not matter, the buyer from us will tell us that "the price paid to him in the lot is that and that,

    And "they make him replace the spices," so we'd better bend too.

    third. Selling a car when it is still two years old, say with up to a thousand km 40, produces a product that is on the border of the new Perceptual in the minds of buyers.

    First of all, because there are not a lot of injuries or scratches on the chassis, a relatively two-year-old vehicle is reasonably well visualized, especially if it's private.

    Second, the mileage is relatively low compared to the used market, certainly compared with the leasing of the 3 girls that have already dipped between a typical 70-120 and a thousand kilometers.

    Third, the vehicle still has a manufacturer's warranty and this is an extremely critical element. It greatly reduces the fear of buyers, and makes it easier for them

    The readiness to purchase used and generates consumer readiness to pay for it generously. This responsibility for another year (sometimes more dependent on the brand)

    Brings peace of mind and ease of mind.

    D. The basic thesis assumes that a vehicle will lose less depreciation in its third year, at least if you look at the price list,

    But in reality it does not happen. Since when you sell 3, you compromise hard on the price list, and not when you sell between two years

    (Explanation of why in previous sections). This is an actual bias that is no longer in the price list itself, a bias that is understood after studying the field

    That of selling used cars (ours), in these giyals of 2 to 3. This sobering in the market teaches experience.

    God. In the third year we are usually in the transition between 40 and 60 a thousand km, the initial need to replace all components begins

    Sprinkles like tires, windshield wipers, sometimes batteries, air filter, brake oil, and in cases of less effective driving, brake pads or even discs.

    All these maintenance costs are built on the vehicle (on us) before we can sell it and they add up to the total cost of the first 3 years.

    This is a few thousand more shekels for the depreciation we calculated. The result is that the cost per month on the road or per kilometer is not improving

    If we hold the vehicle for another year on the road (until its third year), it is better to dispose of it by the time it is two years old.

    Sample numbers can be shown in principle to understand:

    We bought a new 130 vehicle at NIS 2. At the age of two, we sold it on 100, meaning 15 per year.

    If we wait for the age of 3 then perhaps in this price list appears in the value 90, the actual thank you for giving us 85. The Helsing companies are disposed of in 70-80.

    This means that the reduction of the 15 for the first year, as in the first 1-2 years, is a practical one. This means that there is no added value here

    Carry another year. And when we also add possible maintenance costs (tires, batteries, brakes, taps, filters, etc.)

    To demand a replacement, there are a few thousand shekels here in the silence that is added to us like a weight on our backs. This creates a situation where not only is the reduction 15 per year

    The third contrast to our expectations for the discount in this section, but a few more thousand shekels maintenance as explained above.

    This meant that we made a mistake by taking another year on the road to the third lane.

    We actually missed the sweet spot point and made the exit on the vehicle at the ideal time (2 age).

    Now ask the following question:

    So if we understand why, if you buy new, then you better get rid of two years later than 3, since the numbers and the explanations above show this quite clearly,

    Why not do otherwise - let's say carry with the vehicle from the age of 0, which is new to (say) age 10. Take advantage of it until the masked as they say.

    Without doing excessive diving to numbers, we will see that a vehicle bought new at 130 ALS, and sold (if it is a reliable Japanese and negotiable)

    At the age of 10 in the region 20 thousand chess, the numbers bring to an interesting and enlightening picture - let's see:

    The depreciation between 130 and 20 is about 110 thousand shekels, or on average 11 thousand shekels per year. There will be quite a few maintenance events during the 10 years

    Which will add to the annual average and bring it closer to 12-13 thousand per year (11 plus maintenance)

    First we saw that a new car in two years loses only 15 per year, and there is no need for maintenance.

    The cost of 12-13 is already too close to the cost of the first two years of 15 per year, and this small gap

    Viability of pull with composition up to age 10 years. Which brings us back to the claim at the beginning of the post that I noted that the price lists are distorted and contain

    Bias in favor of new purchasers, in that they do not embody sufficiently rapid depreciation at the beginning of the life of the car. And because there is no sufficient depreciation,

    Bring to the point that she loses too little at the beginning of her life, so much so that the alternative of the new every two years does not go out much more expensive as

    Which should have been. 1000-2000 A depreciation gap (depreciation plus maintenance) per year, grossed to 100-200 per month. It's a joke.

    ** Of course there are other sections of interest on capital, insurance and fees that slightly change the picture but the goal was to show in large numbers,

    That the gaps are too small to justify. That even if the gap develops into another 100 or even 200 NIS, that is, 200-300 per month,

    When a typical family car costs us an average of 3000-3500 gross per month, this is a whole area of ​​10% less cost.

    And who is an idiot for saving a whole 10% per month cost of a car section, staying with the used until the age of 10, instead of constantly enjoying a new vehicle

    In nylon, the most advanced, sophisticated, and confident technological marble. As well as the least likely to get stuck with him.

    Now that you understand why, if you buy new, there is a distortion in favor of new purchasers who sell wise at the age of 2, and that there is no justification to get stuck with the vehicle until the age

    Superficial like 10, ask the last question - why not buy used 2 son from a private car seller, that's what you asked me,

    Purchasing in the area of ​​100 will go to SH, and sell it after 2-3 years in turn on.

    The dirty calculation shows even worse.

    A person who buys a 2 year old used in the 100 and sells it at the age of 5 (ie, holding 3 for years) will discover that:

    1. The depreciation it will experience in the 3 years it will hold in the vehicle will not be less than 15 thousand per year as well.

    Kerry is selling a vehicle at the age of 5 in the region 55 thousand shekels. So what did he even bother to do?

    2. He will find that he works very hard to sell the vehicle after that at the age of 5, the knots to be used in the center of the table are the problem

    And the most difficult war. It is easy to sell a used car that is very young and the supply of such a small two-year vehicle, coupled with high demand for such age.

    But not at the age of 5 when the vehicle is no longer warranted, and with competition against the large flooding of used cars. Where supply is increasing and demand is falling.

    3. He will find out that the first owner of the car, the one who avoided his joy to do any maintenance work on the vehicle when he was still young and new,

    Actually rolling all the maintenance of the wear to the next buyer. The buyer of a two-year-old car misses, who is the one in charge

    Spend money on: tires, brakes, mops, battery, air filter, brake time, and a few other typical wear components.

    An element that will add a few thousand more to the total vehicle maintenance price in the period from 2 to 5.

    I calculated some real cases like this and went out more than once, that not only bought 2 car sold at the age of 5 even saved nothing compared to

    A new car alternative every two years, but in a lot of cases he even paid more, yes to such a distorted issue.

    Summary:

    We have now received an interesting glimpse into a segment of used vehicle trading, on the inherent distortions inherent in this market, and now we understand

    Better why leasing companies and leasing (who know everything written above) as well as holding professional accountants in the industry,

    Come to the conclusion that it is better for them to buy a new and be rid of after 2 roof 3 years of vehicles.

    ** Anyone who wants to see samples with Excel are well calculated for each of the alternatives - I can upload.

    ** Sage - it is not always worth a new car every two years, for example when it comes to secondary / second car in the family, such as a scrap 10-20 year

    Which is at the bottom of the table, say 3-10K NIS The calculation has been made in this case, but there are compromises to consider:

    As they convert old vehicles, the cost of depreciation (which is already nil) for the expense of time loss of hassle and garages.

    The point is that at the end of the table (that is, when the vehicle is old enough and in fact has become a junk), the great savings that are saved from us,

    Is offset with a new clause that is a maintenance clause. Fortunately, in most cases the saved depreciation exceeds its maintenance cost

    More in numbers, so we have a surplus in our pockets. Say depreciation fell from 15 per year to only 1,000 a year, while maintenance climbed to 3K per year.

    It is clear that the savings in depreciation are greater than the added maintenance, and therefore it is worthwhile in numerical terms.

    But this is another case that we will discuss separately, if there is any interest in it at all. There is an element of risk and hassle of about 1-3 times a year to repair the vehicle

    In the garage, an old car (grotesque) periodically spoils a complex or component that needs to be repaired. It's not something for everyone.

    There are consumers that it suits them, since time or day work "cheap" for them. There are those who are very expensive to get stuck with the vehicle and lose

    The day or miss the meeting. The method is appropriate where selective cases of users of a particular type and type.

    Especially men with motor understanding for whom to repair a vehicle 1-3 times a year does not interfere. This would certainly not suit my wife in any way

    And probably most of the women members of the site, or members whose motor involvement and mechanical understanding of technical engineering and maintenance is

    The distance from heaven to earth, the type of clients in the Masquerades exploiting them to the end when they are stung because of their lack of knowledge of the field.

  25. Quote of nec_000

    Even myself do not buy a new machine on 2500 $ because it does not give me any better "gaming experience" than I have.

    Son, I do not sit on the side and try to persuade myself to settle for so little, so narrowly, except that with 2500K and 1080TI

    In the 2 hand at the 1150 chess six months ago (a bargain price it was), I really get a great gaming experience, in every normative game

    Which is programmed properly - and these are the only things I deal with.

    I think,

    That the pattern of thought held by a considerable number of consumers, that if they do not have every 2-3 years a new machine in 2500 $, then stems

    The fact that their game experience is going down significantly - those who hold this perception not because they tested it seriously, but because apparently

    Read too much of a marketing presentation disguised as an innocent review, or take a review from a computer store vendor

    (And I would witness from the sidelines to some such conversations) that either the seller deceives the buyer brazenly, or that the seller himself is a layman in the field

    And there is no shortage of them unfortunately.

    It's a little funny that you write that you do not sit on the side and convince yourself to make do with little, and immediately goes on to explain how you do just that.

    If you think that playing 1080 / 1440 in 60fps is equivalent to a game in 120 / 144fps or higher resolution, you are really wrong.

    And that you do not play games that are not well programmed, it's also a limitation on yourself. There are great games that can provide you with hours of enjoyment but may not carry on your hardware.

    As for the second paragraph, it falls under the same thing I wrote above.

    In addition, there are people whose pleasure is partly due to the knowledge that they get maximum performance possible in what they do. It is not rational, and pleasure is not required to be. You'd better stop judging others according to what's right and right for you.

  26. Just as I do not judge you in the cave man, do not judge me for the honesty of conveying the Residency to believe in others.

    This is a free democracy, everyone does the good in his own eyes and on condition - doing so in a good spirit, out of a sincere and positive desire for the other and the community

    And without violating its rights.

    As you know, there are consumers from all over the spectrum, some who swing among groups and are happy to hear another angle to look at

    Does she make them smart or not.

    Let everyone hear all opinions. Space your mind at the same time as you would like, and the rest for each one to collect from among the options,

    The one that seems appropriate to him.

  27. Quote of the captaincaveman

    It's a little funny that you write that you do not sit on the side and convince yourself to make do with little, and immediately goes on to explain how you do just that.

    I think this is the first time I have quoted myself, but I just ignored it, so I emphasize the point.

  28. Quote of nec_000

    The reasons are based on the following tactical points and I will go over the main points in order to expand the scope:

    Price distortions - bias

    A. Depreciation tables (ie, price lists) are distorted. The distortion is that the price list does not reduce enough value at the beginning of the vehicle's life,

    And on the other hand lowers too much value down the road. A distortion is created in that the vehicle does not lose significantly greater depreciation

    In the first and next years, as was expected to happen. This is a mathematical bias that is in favor of Connie vehicle New.

    There is more to my heart than a feeling that Yitzhak Levy, who holds a cartel on the market and its prices, is working hand in hand with the large fleets and all with the aim

    To preserve their value as much as possible, in order to make it easier for them to dispose of used stock at the best price possible.

    Since for them every percentage is millions, and therefore very critical. It is reasonable to assume that they are transferring to Yitzhak Levy what is needed, and he is doing for them

    The service he knows best. If this is the case, then I prefer to ride the wave in favor of new buyers.

    Why sell at age 2 and not 3

    B. When sold vehicle Unlike the age of 3, the private seller enjoys a relative advantage over most of the market

    Which is a market based on leasing and leasing companies, of which the typical and main age is 3. In fact most of the vast majority of the market

    Which are used by 3, 70 and XNUMX. These vehicles are located in the fields of Shlomo Sixt, Alvar, Eldan & Co..

    If he waits for a seller vehicle Until the third year of the car, unfortunately he will enter the period is not good for him and this competition

    Direct to the chieftains vehicle. His difficulty in getting rid of the car will increase significantly, because the plots are making low prices, they are

    They straighten a line and paint the knocks of a car, they put tires and a new battery (even if it's Chinese garbage I would not touch with a stick

    rain). they Special Deals The so-called cosmetic line of divorcees, something our private grocer can not afford.

    The lots also have our credit transactions as private and can not be challenged, and the plots also tend to give short warranty

    Of 6-12 month on their behalf to vehicles that have expired manufacturer warranty. Once again our private acquaintances can not compete with him.

    But the broad crowd that is looking for a 3 vehicle does not matter, the buyer from us will tell us that "the price paid to him in the lot is that and that,

    And "that they make him replace the spices," and "that they make payments for him, and that they also give him responsibility."

    And a lot, in order to persuade us to buy from us and not from the court. "

    third. Selling a car when it is still two years old, say with up to a thousand km 40, produces a product that is on the border of the new Perceptual in the minds of buyers.

    First, because there is not much damage or scratches on the chassis, a two-year-old vehicle is relatively well maintained and visually especially if it is private

    our. Second, the mileage is relatively low compared to the used market, certainly compared with the leasing of the 3 girls that have already sunk between 70-120

    A third kilometer, the vehicle still has a manufacturer's warranty and is an extremely important element, it greatly reduces the fear of buyers,

    And makes it easier for them to prepare for used purchase. It generates consumer readiness to pay for it generously. This responsibility for another year

    (Sometimes more dependent on the brand) brings peace of mind and ease of mind.

    D. The basic thesis assumes that a vehicle will lose less depreciation in its third year, at least if you look at the price list,

    But in reality it does not happen. Since when you sell 3, you compromise hard on the price list, and not when you sell between two years

    (Explanation of why in previous sections). This is an actual bias that is no longer in the price list itself, a bias that is understood after studying the

    This area of ​​selling used cars (ours), these ages 2 to 3. This sobering in the market teaches experience.

    God. In the third year we are usually in the transition between 40 and 60 a thousand km, the initial need to replace all components begins

    Such as tires, windshield wipers, sometimes batteries, air conditioner filters, brake oil, and in cases of less effective driving, brake pads or

    No discs. All these maintenance costs are built on the vehicle (on us) before we can sell it and they add up to the total cost of

    3 Our first years. This is a few thousand more shekels for the depreciation we calculated. The result is that the cost per month is about

    The road or per kilometer, does not improve if we hold the car for another year on the road (up to its third year) sometimes even

    Worse, and better to get rid of him by the time he was two years old.

    Sample numbers can be shown in principle to understand:

    We bought a new 130 vehicle at NIS 2. At the age of two, we sold it on 100, meaning 15 per year.

    If we wait for the age of 3 then maybe this price list is worth 90, actually thank you for giving us 80-85. The Helsing companies are disposed of in 70-80.

    This means that the reduction on the third year is a practical one for 15-20 per year, which is worse than the first 1-2 years. This means that there is no value here

    Added to carry another year. And when we add the possible maintenance costs (tires, batteries, brakes, wipers, filters and so on ... my name

    Some of them may require replacement, there are a few thousand shekels here in the silence that is added to us like a weight on our backs. This creates a situation that not only reduced

    It is too high in a third year and contrary to our expectations of a reduction in this item, but a few thousand hours of maintenance as explained above.

    This means that we made a mistake in that we spent another year on the road with the vehicle to its third year.

    We actually missed the sweet spot point and made the exit on the vehicle at the ideal time (2 age).

    Now ask the following question:

    So if we understand why, if you buy new, then you better get rid of two years and not 3, since the numbers and the explanations above show this

    It's pretty obvious why not do otherwise - let's say carry with the vehicle from the age of 0, which is new to (say) the age of 10. The so-called exploit it to the end

    as they say.

    Why sell at the age of 2 and not at the age of 10

    Without doing excessive diving for numbers, it is enough that a vehicle bought a new 130, and sold (if it is a reliable Japanese and tradable)

    At the age of 10 - in the region 20 thousand chess, the numbers bring to an interesting and enlightening picture - let's dive in:

    The depreciation between 130 and 20 is about 110 thousand shekels, or on average 11 thousand shekels per year. There will be quite a few maintenance events during the 10 years

    And treatments for the vehicle, which will add to the annual average and bring it more towards 12-13 thousand shekels per year (depreciation 11 plus

    Maintenance). First we saw that a new car in two years loses only 15 per year, and there is no need for maintenance.

    The cost of 12-13 is already too close to the cost of the first two years of 15 per year, and this small gap

    Viability of pull with composition up to age 10 years. Which brings us back to the claim at the beginning of the post that I noted that the price lists are distorted

    And contain bias in favor of new purchasers, in that they do not embody sufficiently rapid depreciation at the beginning of the life of the car. And because there is no depreciation

    Provides the situation that the car loses too little at the beginning of its life, so that the replacement of the new every two years does not go out much

    More expensive than it should have been. 1000-2000 A depreciation gap (depreciation plus maintenance) per year, grossed to 100-200 per month. It

    joke.

    ** Of course, there are other sections of interest on capital, insurance and fees that change the picture a bit, but the goal was to show in numbers

    The gaps are too small to justify. That even if the gap develops for another 100 or even 200 NIS, that is to say 200-

    300 per month, as a typical family car costs us an average gross 3000-3500 per month, this is an area of ​​the whole 10% less

    cost. And who is an idiot for the entire save 10% per month cost of the car section, stay with the used until the age of 10, instead of enjoying the whole time

    A new vehicle in nylon, the most advanced, sophisticated, and confident technological marble. As well as the least likely to get stuck with him.

    Why not buy an old 2 vehicle and sell it at the age of 5

    Now that it is understood why if new buyers, there is a distortion in favor of new buyers who sell intelligent at the age of 2, and that there is no justification to get stuck with the vehicle

    Until a very old age like 10, ask the last question - why not buy a used 2 son from a private car seller, that's what you asked

    Me, purchased in the area of ​​100 thousand chess, and sell it after 2-3 years in turn on.

    The dirty calculation shows even worse.

    A person who buys a two-year-old used car at 100, and sells it at the age of 5 (ie, holding 3 for years) will discover that:

    1. The depreciation it will experience in the 3 years it will hold in the vehicle will not be less than 15 thousand per year as well.

    Kerry is selling a vehicle at the age of 5 in the region 55 thousand shekels. So what did he even bother to do?

    2. He will find that he works very hard to sell the vehicle after that at the age of 5, the knots to be used in the center of the table are the problem

    And the most difficult war. It is easy to sell a used car that is very young and the supply of such a small two-year vehicle, coupled with high demand for such age.

    But not at the age of 5 when the vehicle is no longer warranted, and with competition against the large flooding of used cars. Where supply is increasing and demand is falling.

    3. He will find out that the first owner of the car, the one who avoided his joy to do any maintenance work on the vehicle when he was still young and new,

    In fact rolling all the maintenance of the wear to the next buyer - Kerry to him. The buyer of a two-year-old car misses, that's it

    Which will be required to spend money on: tires, brakes, wipers, accumulator, air filter, brake fluid, and several other wear components

    Typical. An element that will add a few thousand more to the total vehicle maintenance price in the period from 2 to 5.

    I calculated some real cases like this and went out more than once, that not only bought 2 car sold at the age of 5 even saved nothing compared to

    A new car alternative every two years, but in a lot of cases he even paid more, yes to such a distorted issue.

    Summary:

    We have now received an interesting glimpse into a segment of used vehicle trading, on the inherent distortions inherent in this market, and now we understand

    Better why leasing companies and leasing (who know everything written above) as well as holding professional accountants in the industry,

    Come to the conclusion that it is better for them to buy a new and be rid of after 2 roof 3 years of vehicles.

    ** Anyone who wants to see samples with Excel are well calculated for each of the alternatives - I can upload.

    An old car-wrecking alternative-worthwhile for certain cases

    ** Sage - It is not always worth a new car every two years. When it comes to a secondary / second car in a family, one that is a 10-20-year junk

    Which is at the bottom of the table, say 3-10K NIS The calculation has been made in this case, but there are compromises to consider:

    As they convert old vehicles, the cost of depreciation (which is already nil) for the expense of time loss of hassle and garages.

    The point is that at the end of the table (that is, when the vehicle is old enough and in fact has become a junk), the great savings that are saved from us,

    Is offset with a new clause that is a maintenance clause. Fortunately, in most cases the saved depreciation exceeds the cost of maintenance

    Which is smaller in numbers, so we have a surplus in our pockets. Say depreciation fell from 15 per year to only 1,000 a year while maintenance

    Climbed to 3K per year. It is clear that the savings in depreciation are greater than the added maintenance, and therefore it is worthwhile in numerical terms.

    But this is another case that we will discuss separately, if there is any interest in it at all.

    There is an element of risk and hassle of about 1-3 times a year to repair the car in the garage, an old car (grotesque) from time to time spoils the complex

    Or component that needs to be fixed. It's not something for everyone. There are consumers that it suits them, since time or day work

    "Cheap" for them. There are those who are very expensive to get stuck with the car and lose the day or miss the meeting. The method is appropriate

    Where selective cases of users of a particular type and type. Especially men with motor understanding for whom to repair 1-3 vehicle times

    A year does not interfere. This would certainly not suit my wife, for example, and probably most of the women members of the site, or friends

    Whose mechanical preoccupation and mechanical understanding of technical and engineering engineering-is the distance from heaven to earth, climbing customers in the garages

    They use them to the very end by sting them because of their lack of knowledge of the field.

    Anyone who does not have a motor orientation will not mess with this niche.

    This logic is not clear. Would you rather lose 40K every two years than find good deals for cars? As an 2 hand enthusiast I expected more from you.

    I also do not know where the unreasonable costs of car maintenance in 2-5. Beyond the natural wear you mentioned. If you have not fallen on a model that is not correct in advance, maintenance in these years should be ongoing and that's it.

    If we compare it to the world of computers according to your logic you have to buy a 8 vehicle and stay with it 2-4 for years and then buy a new 8 vehicle. The loss will be much lower.

    The costs you describe, sound crazy to me.

    And what I lack in all your explanations (all the comments in the forum is not just here) is a little emotion. Life is not just a purely economic calculation.

    Hobbies spend a lot of emotions among others to upgrade to the best possible.

    For example your pleasures in finding good deals in 2 hand (I can estimate).

    In any case, you still have not convinced me that the method of replacing a new vehicle every two years is correct and accurate.

    If you have real numbers to share I would love to see. In hardware, I think your numbers are closer to reality.

  29. Quote of giliep

    And what I lack in all your explanations (all the comments in the forum is not just here) is a little emotion. Life is not just a purely economic calculation.

    Hobbies spend a lot of emotions among others to upgrade to the best possible.

    Extremely accurate.

  30. Quote of giliep

    This logic is not clear. Would you rather lose 40K every two years than find good deals for cars? As an 2 hand enthusiast I expected more from you.

    I also do not know where the unreasonable costs of car maintenance in 2-5. Beyond the natural wear you mentioned. If you have not fallen on a model that is not correct in advance, maintenance in these years should be ongoing and that's it.

    If we compare it to the world of computers according to your logic you have to buy a 8 vehicle and stay with it 2-4 for years and then buy a new 8 vehicle. The loss will be much lower.

    The costs you describe, sound crazy to me.

    And what I lack in all your explanations (all the comments in the forum is not just here) is a little emotion. Life is not just a purely economic calculation.

    Hobbies spend a lot of emotions among others to upgrade to the best possible.

    For example your pleasures in finding good deals in 2 hand (I can estimate).

    In any case, you still have not convinced me that the method of replacing a new vehicle every two years is correct and accurate.

    If you have real numbers to share I would love to see. In hardware, I think your numbers are closer to reality.

    If, as you say, we do the preoccupation of finding bargains in the used market, that is, sellers who hold bonobionaires,

    But we will succeed because of these and other techniques, or because of the distress with which the sellers are, to get the vehicle far below the price list,

    So there's a cushion here to grab a nice piece. Here I am with you.

    But the point is, at least from my experience, that whoever holds a two-year-old bargain will not take us 10-15-1,000 shekels - that is, sell on 85-90,

    Because he would find a buyer for Novonera in a week to pay him a price list. Sure if it was a licked Toyota.

    I know it's like this from the seller's side, after 4's continuous experience in two-year vehicle sales (since 2011).

    I always found a buyer in the price list within a week, and for the most part it was easy: it was a friend, colleague, family member, or neighbor.

    They were the first to get the booty, I did not even need to publish an ad.

    I do not say that it is not possible for a buyer to find a bargain under the price list, but it is not as trivial as one thinks,

    And certainly will take a considerable amount of time. If you do not do it for your hobby and pleasure - so the cost of time is zero,

    Then definitely have to embody this time in terms of money. Everyone knows how much time it costs him.

    If the search bargain below the price list will bother me a month time, speaking with 20 people, from which I will see 5 vehicles,

    I will negotiate with 3 until I close a deal, something that is dozens of hours and total total includes quite a few trips, personally I do not care,

    For my time is too expensive to justify it.

    Regarding maintenance,

    Please note that I just mentioned regular maintenance, no bug fixes.

    Assuming that we are talking about the average crude rides of 20 a thousand kilometers per year, the significance of purchasing a vehicle is 2

    And selling it at the age of 5, says we bought it at 40 thousand kilometers traveled and sold it at 100 thousand kilometers.

    In this period between 40 and 100 thousand km there is a lot of regular maintenance (not faults) of expenses that are beyond the annual treatment.

    You have a tire quartet that usually falls between 40-80 and a thousand km, depending on the tire model and the driving style of the vehicle owner.

    There is definitely a battery. There is definitely replacement of air filter (at least once) if not two. There is a brake fluid replacement once

    Whether it's Octavia, for example, one that asks for 3 for years, or twice if it's a Toyota that makes every two years of such a replacement.

    There are certain times (up to twice) mops, and at least once brake pads. There are drivers and geographically problematic areas

    More of which would be two rounds of brake pads. I've seen drivers of all kinds.

    If you change pads then you also have to scratch (or replace) disks.

    Replace air filter (usually in 60K). And there is also a fuel filter between the 50-100 and the motor model.

    There are lighters in the Xerium 90K, or in the ordinary 45K.

    There are vehicles with a very expensive timing band.

    These are the main ones.

    Each vehicle according to its type and sample will require the replacement of these alternating parts with its frequency during a large treatment, which takes place once in a while

    Twice in the range between 40 and 100 thousand km.

    And therefore the amount of these thousands of shekels must be added for the period of cost of maintenance. It can also be 5-10K NIS total if considered detailed.

    Faults I would not have computer in this range, at least not in a reliable Japanese vehicle like Toyota for example. Again, from experience.

    If you're talking about a European / American vehicle the picture changes from end to end

    So assuming you bought a pricelist without the luck of bending the seller, because you've found Bon Boone and you want to snatch first before anyone arrives

    An hour after you will take, so it's a deal close to the 100 ALSHAH (family car), assuming you sold at real market prices afterwards

    5 100 vehicle with a thousand km, watch for a capital turnover of about 55 thousand NIS on average rough in principle. From experience, I helped quite a few friends sell

    And buy good advice, and after closing a circle in which I realized how much actually sold.

    Here the cost shows us a depreciation of about 45K in 3 years, or about 15K per year, and a few thousand shekels of maintenance beyond the current treatment

    And that we are up. Do the aggregate calculations of all together, and you'll see, it does not come out cheaper again and sell it ** in the price list **

    After two years.

    And even if you find that you got cheaper, you'll still find that it's only points, or an amount - that is not worth it at all.

    Buying new sort out all the risks inherent in buying a used car - reset. No test ownership required. There is no hassle and move,

    We see the vehicle 10 minutes in the showroom, call an overview with pictures (if desired) or bring us the vehicle

    To the office, and within minutes 15 on the phone transmits details and an order is launched. It is that simple and short in terms of process.

    The behavior of purchasing a used car, on all its levels, the investment time and the savings inherent in it, since there is always a statistical risk,

    Unless you buy from a close friend / friend who has full confidence, you should weigh in with pricing and time.

    It's possible that a manager will go to an engine, chalk, or expensive computer, outside the framework of responsibility, and then that used will cost us a huge loss

    Financially. Everything we thought we'd earned would evaporate outside the window.

    ** The more you want to discuss in depth and hear direct impressions directly from my mouth, about the vehicles that were, how I sold, to whom, how, why,

    And what was the cost at the end of the day, happily. Shave my experience with pleasure.

    *** Replace Molly details in the messages and proceed from there in voice.

    In my opinion, it will not be difficult for me to convince you in a conversation, it will not be long, that the alternative of a new one every two years wins most of the alternatives that are close

    She is seductive. Of course, it will not win an alternative to an old one, which is a completely different strategic channel that lowers prices to the level

    At a very different height. I also had such rounds, including one there today. I also have a new car every two years, and one is used cheaply.

    Each vehicle needs different, each attached to someone else in the home routine, hence the adjustment of new / used according to the driver.

  31. Quote of nec_000

    If, as you say, we do the preoccupation of finding bargains in the used market, that is, sellers who hold bonobionaires,

    But we will succeed because of these and other techniques, or because of the distress with which the sellers are, to get the vehicle far below the price list,

    So there's a cushion here to grab a nice piece. Here I am with you.

    But the point is, at least from my experience, that whoever holds a two-year-old bargain will not take us 10-15-1,000 shekels - that is, sell on 85-90,

    Because he would find a buyer for Novonera in a week to pay him a price list. Sure if it was a licked Toyota.

    I know it's like this from the seller's side, after 4's continuous experience in two-year vehicle sales (since 2011).

    I always found a buyer in the price list within a week, and for the most part it was easy: it was a friend, colleague, family member, or neighbor.

    They were the first to get the booty, I did not even need to publish an ad.

    I do not say that it is not possible for a buyer to find a bargain under the price list, but it is not as trivial as one thinks,

    And certainly will take a considerable amount of time. If you do not do it for your hobby and pleasure - so the cost of time is zero,

    Then definitely have to embody this time in terms of money. Everyone knows how much time it costs him.

    If the search bargain below the price list will bother me a month time, speaking with 20 people, from which I will see 5 vehicles,

    I will negotiate with 3 until I close a deal, something that is dozens of hours and total total includes quite a few trips, personally I do not care,

    For my time is too expensive to justify it.

    Regarding maintenance,

    Please note that I just mentioned regular maintenance, no bug fixes.

    Assuming that we are talking about the average crude rides of 20 a thousand kilometers per year, the significance of purchasing a vehicle is 2

    And selling it at the age of 5, says we bought it at 40 thousand kilometers traveled and sold it at 100 thousand kilometers.

    In this period between 40 and 100 thousand km there is a lot of regular maintenance (not faults) of expenses that are beyond the annual treatment.

    You have a tire quartet that usually falls between 40-80 and a thousand km, depending on the tire model and the driving style of the vehicle owner.

    There is definitely a battery. There is definitely replacement of air filter (at least once) if not two. There is a brake fluid replacement once

    Whether it's Octavia, for example, one that asks for 3 for years, or twice if it's a Toyota that makes every two years of such a replacement.

    There are certain times (up to twice) mops, and at least once brake pads. There are drivers and geographically problematic areas

    More of which would be two rounds of brake pads. I've seen drivers of all kinds.

    If you change pads then you also have to scratch (or replace) disks.

    Replace air filter (usually in 60K). And there is also a fuel filter between the 50-100 and the motor model.

    There are lighters in the Xerium 90K, or in the ordinary 45K.

    There are vehicles with a very expensive timing band.

    These are the main ones.

    Each vehicle according to its type and sample will require the replacement of these alternating parts with its frequency during a large treatment, which takes place once in a while

    Twice in the range between 40 and 100 thousand km.

    And therefore the amount of these thousands of shekels must be added for the period of cost of maintenance. It can also be 5-10K NIS total if considered detailed.

    Faults I would not have computer in this range, at least not in a reliable Japanese vehicle like Toyota for example. Again, from experience.

    If you're talking about a European / American vehicle the picture changes from end to end

    So assuming you bought a pricelist without the luck of bending the seller, because you've found Bon Boone and you want to snatch first before anyone arrives

    An hour after you will take, so it's a deal close to the 100 ALSHAH (family car), assuming you sold at real market prices afterwards

    5 100 vehicle with a thousand km, watch for a capital turnover of about 55 thousand NIS on average rough in principle. From experience, I helped quite a few friends sell

    And buy good advice, and after closing a circle in which I realized how much actually sold.

    Here the cost shows us a depreciation of about 45K in 3 years, or about 15K per year, and a few thousand shekels of maintenance beyond the current treatment

    And that we are up. Do the aggregate calculations of all together, and you'll see, it does not come out cheaper again and sell it ** in the price list **

    After two years.

    And even if you find that you got cheaper, you'll still find that it's only points, or an amount - that is not worth it at all.

    Buying new sort out all the risks inherent in buying a used car - reset. No test ownership required. There is no hassle and move,

    We are seeing the 10 vehicle minutes in the showroom, calling for an overview with תמונות (If desired) or bring us the vehicle

    To the office, and within minutes 15 on the phone transmits details and an order is launched. It is that simple and short in terms of process.

    The behavior of purchasing a used car, on all its levels, the investment time and the savings inherent in it, since there is always a statistical risk,

    Unless you buy from a close friend / friend who has full confidence, you should weigh in with pricing and time.

    It's possible that a manager will go to an engine, chalk, or expensive computer, outside the framework of responsibility, and then that used will cost us a huge loss

    Financially. Everything we thought we'd earned would evaporate outside the window.

    ** The more you want to discuss in depth and hear direct impressions directly from my mouth, about the vehicles that were, how I sold, to whom, how, why,

    And what was the cost at the end of the day, happily. Shave my experience with pleasure.

    *** Replace Molly details in the messages and proceed from there in voice.

    In my opinion, it will not be difficult for me to convince you in a conversation, it will not be long, that the alternative of a new one every two years wins most of the alternatives that are close

    She is seductive. Of course, it will not win an alternative to an old one, which is a completely different strategic channel that lowers prices to the level

    At a very different height. I also had such rounds, including one there today. I also have a new car every two years, and one is used cheaply.

    Each vehicle needs different, each attached to someone else in the home routine, hence the adjustment of new / used according to the driver.

    I'd love to expand on this.

    Because professionals in the field, preferably 2-5 vehicle and back again.

    I'll send you a message to bring the discussion back to the original topic

  32. happily

    👍

    Who can explain the gap in the next game - How does the Raven smash the 9900K ?:
    https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2263?vs=2520

    Something is not working properly at Intel in this test. There may be several reasons, but the probability here is that there is simply a malfunction or a test

    Or game etc. that more gaps are suitable for processors whose difference is roughly 9-10 years.

    In popular words - a mishap. Nothing significant.

  33. I also thought so but this gap was created from 4K and does not exist in 1080P which is usually tested, so perhaps the stress on the CPU is greater.

  34. I can not tell the truth.

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/13

    Notice the previous Breisen, which is very similar to Intel (switch between HIGH \ MED) which is actually 8K \ 16K.

    And you'll see that the numbers there are supposed to be very close to Intel, which makes a lot of sense. What actually happens is that the GPU plays a role,

    And the processors are pretty similar, it's still a game from 2016.

    The numbers of the new Rhizn look like numbers of 1080p \ 720p ... that is not really affected by the transition to 8K resolution. Here I suspect

    Which is a confusion of numbers, that this is a mistake. Unless someone here lights our eyes and tells us that this is something new .. I can not say.

  35. Really look suspicious, they are supposed to go over the results of the Bunch with No. updated after the bios update, wait and see.

  36. If the results are real then it is probably because of the cache architecture.

    Quote of TheHwGeek

    I wonder if the increased cash will result in better FPS performance with new game patches

    Do not forget that some patch or another that helps the processor from the company X will not necessarily help the processor from the company Y and may even cause a fall in performance due to different architectures. Most of the games on the market are sold to Intel processors.

  37. It's probably much simpler than you think:

    For some reason, maybe bug, the apply-to-resolution was not captured and it actually remained on 1080P.

    The examiner was not concentrating, apparently missing when he changed resolution - pressed a button and moved on,

    The change has not been received. that's it.

  38. Is it even worth speeding 3900X processors? In my opinion, according to the conclusions here, the majority should not leave the OC on automatic (let the CPU and board manage the frequency):

  39. Because of this, it is possible to give up the X570 for those who do not need the PCI4, and as others have already shown even a good and cheap B350 board, it is fun to run the processor with PBO - just to have air cooling that will cool the environment.

    So B450 included the SWEET SPOT, in my opinion it gives a good feeling that you do not have to feel bad that you can not acquire a sparkling X570 :-).

  40. Pay attention to the quantities of new processors that have already been sold, even though there is hardly any available stock and there is a great demand for supply:


    One of the most successful marketing tricks ever.

    All this preparation has been progressing since January this year, how consumers were cooked on low heat while developing expectations

    And an appetite that gradually increases ... until 7.7's great orgasm.

    And now they sold the entire world inventory in a moment, there are no more processors. And there was a large amount of production mass for a whole quarter.

    I do not even remember the introduction of CPUs, which has always been like this, and I've never been in the industry since yesterday.

    Something unusual out of the ordinary is done here, especially when the 3000 series populates, does not invent anything new,

    Or smashing dramatic performance peaks. All for the home sector, provided equivalent to 9900K, only at the price of 330 $ instead of 600 $

    (Intel processor cost with cooling system).

    And still with all due respect is no reason to storm the store as if it were gold. Judge consumer behavior is not rational.

    And now back to the technical matter,

    There is something very important about the synchronization of the BUS frequency and the frequency of memory, and learn it in a way

    Strict. This is different from what was in previous series. You need to focus on how to correctly set the memory and BUS speed:

    Quote of nec_000


    One of the most successful marketing tricks ever.

    All this preparation has been progressing since January of this year, how they cooked the consumers on a low flame while Development expectations

    And a gradually increasing appetite ... until the great orgasm of 7.7.

    And now we have sold the entire world inventory in a moment, there is no more Processors. And it was not that there was no merchandise,

    There was a large quantity - a production mass of a whole quarter.

    I do not remember any launch Processors (CPU), which has always been, and I am in industry not from yesterday.

    Something unusual out of the ordinary is done here, especially when the 3000 series populates, does not invent anything new,

    Or shattering dramatic records of Performence.

    For the household sector, provided equivalent to 9900K, only at the price of 330 $ instead of 600 $ (the cost of the processor Intel + Cooling system).

    It still with all due respect is no reason to storm the store as if it were gold. Just consumer behavior is not rational.

    And now back to the technical matter,

    There is something very important about the synchronization of the BUS frequency and the frequency of memory, and learn it in a way

    Strict. This is different from what was in previous series. You need to focus on how to correctly set the memory and BUS speed:

    https://youtu.be/Ssuqhyqah2k?t=816

    Summary:

    There is no point in equipping 3000 with memoirs that are beyond the DDR4- 3600.

    There is no need to set a working frequency. Be careful to maintain the BUS to Memory Speed ​​ratio on 1: 1

    If the step exceeds the ratio falls to 1: 2, then lose Performence And experience problems and stuttering = micro stuttering in sample games.

    A question from mere idiots, did not the illustrious Ethelons create a market echo on the level of the Reisen, or similar?

    The previous time, too, Intel was caught with the pants down, and its cost-effectiveness ratio was at a low.

  41. You talk about 1997 as far as I can remember, and then it was not like that.

    First of all until the news about K7 reached every corner of the world took time, the Internet and mass media was in diapers.

    At that time, it was not usual to attack stores in Koom to come the night before and keep a line on the sidewalk.

    This is morbid behavior that has been new since the iPhone era.

  42. Quote of nec_000


    One of the most successful marketing tricks ever.

    All this preparation has been progressing since January of this year, how they cooked the consumers on a low flame while Development expectations

    And a gradually increasing appetite ... until the great orgasm of 7.7.

    And now we have sold the entire world inventory in a moment, there is no more Processors. And it was not that there was no merchandise,

    There was a large quantity - a production mass of a whole quarter.

    I do not remember any launch Processors (CPU), which has always been, and I am in industry not from yesterday.

    Something unusual out of the ordinary is done here, especially when the 3000 series populates, does not invent anything new,

    Or shattering dramatic records of Performence.

    For the household sector, provided equivalent to 9900K, only at the price of 330 $ instead of 600 $ (the cost of the processor Intel + Cooling system).

    It still with all due respect is no reason to storm the store as if it were gold. Just consumer behavior is not rational.

    And now back to the technical matter,

    There is something very important about the synchronization of the BUS frequency and the frequency of memory, and learn it in a way

    Strict. This is different from what was in previous series. You need to focus on how to correctly set the memory and BUS speed:

    https://youtu.be/Ssuqhyqah2k?t=816

    Summary:

    There is no point in equipping 3000 with memoirs that are beyond the DDR4-3600.

    There is no need to set a working frequency. Be careful to maintain the BUS to Memory Speed ​​ratio on 1: 1

    If the step exceeds the ratio falls to 2: 1, then lose Performence And experience problems and stuttering = micro stuttering in sample games.

    The last sentence clearly says otherwise. If you want, you can exceed and set the 1: 1: 1 ratio even beyond that speed. Probably stopped around 3800, but will still be improved (the most minor, yet)

  43. He imagines that it pleases him, for she needs material from her grandfather Gornisht.

    No nec said, who is nec at all.

    Studies in the field have found this.

    What pleases pleasure is gathering experiences.

    For example, a trip, a trip abroad, a restaurant, play, experience together with friends and family experiences of all kinds.

    It does burn memories and cause happiness. Do not believe ? Read some research on ...

    ** Experiences arise more than once Money is true, but there is no correlation between the cost of experience,

    To the intensity of pleasure and happiness that it conveys. Also found in studies. Stunning.

    1. You are not accurate and mislead people and it is a pity that shopping, shopping, etc. do cause happiness but it is momentary and varies between person and person and the level of viewing for that thing.
      It has been proven that this causes the release of endorphins, as I mentioned above, and this is a hormone that causes a sense of momentary lift and happiness.

  44. Quote of nec_000

    He imagines that it pleases him, for she needs material from her grandfather Gornisht.

    No nec said, who is nec at all.

    Studies in the field have found this.

    What pleases pleasure is gathering experiences.

    For example, a trip, a trip abroad, a restaurant, food, play, a water park, a challenging attraction,

    Sports, hobbies, experiencing some or all of those mentioned together with friends and family - experiences of all kinds.

    It does burn Memories And he is happy. Do not believe ? Read some research on ...

    Even experiences arise more than once Money is true, but there is no correlation between the cost of experience,

    To the intensity of pleasure and happiness that it conveys. Also found in studies. simply incredible.

    Can be an experience that costs a dime, and it brings a lot more pleasure than another experience that costs 1000 a shekel.

    Anyone who thinks he will buy a luxury car, a luxury watch, a new computer at 30, and think it is

    Which will make him happy, or excited .... He lives in a movie.

    Again, the studies found this in a determined and brutal manner. Not about not near, but unequivocally.

    Examined the happiness that the experimenters reported and measured in their blood chemistry, in addition to psychological and psychiatric diagnosis - attacked from all directions.

    Only experience and memory bring lasting pleasure and happiness. And the giant.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy?language=en

  45. Excellent as always in Ted and lots of thanks dear friend 🙏

    Quote of nec_000

    And now back to the technical matter,

    There is something very important about the synchronization of the BUS frequency and the frequency of memory, and learn it in a way

    Strict. This is different from what was in previous series. You need to focus on how to correctly set the memory and BUS speed:



    Summary:

    There is no point in equipping 3000 with memoirs that are beyond the DDR4-3600.

    There is no need to set a working frequency. Be careful to maintain the BUS to Memory Speed ​​ratio on 1: 1

    If the step exceeds the ratio falls to 2: 1, then lose Performence And experience problems and stuttering = micro stuttering in sample games.

    Further to today's post on Memory Speed ​​in the 3 series,

    Here's another explanation video and measuring performance, including recommending what speed memory should match to the 3000:

  46. Hmm ... about one percent difference in performance.

    But there's a big difference in timings. I wonder how it affects. It would be interesting to see 3200 vs 3600 in those timings (probably the 3200 will be lowered towards those of the 3600)

  47. There is not enough information to determine how the timing affects the performance (in my opinion, the impact is marginal to the negligible direction).

    As for the frequencies, based on the information so far, it is quite clear that the target range is 3,000-3,600. The difference in performance in this range is marginal.

    If you want to get maximum value for money, you should buy the memory whose best frequency ratio is intended to speed it up to at least the 3,000 frequency.

    Those who want to go safe or have no desire to deal with the fast will buy the most lucrative memory of their stok range in the above range, which means that the jump in price to the next frequency level is greater than the improvement in performance.

  48. Is there a formal confirmation that 3800X is only one chip? Because, as it is said on the network, a single chip provides only half of the writing bandwidth of the memory, it turns out that it is designed like this and also saves power, so maybe the 3800X has 2 chipsets? Has anyone seen an AIDA64 bandwidth check for 3800X?

  49. Quote of Jabberwock

    Excellent Nick stuff. Knows where to row and where to investigate.

    Let's take the issue to us:

    Corsair DDR4 2x8GB 3600MHz CL18

    או

    ADATA DDR4 2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16

    What is better? If we divide the speed by timing, both divide into 200.

    The timing means that the latency is the same, but the bandwidth is higher in 3600 by 12.5%.

    In my opinion, there will be a lot of applications that need a lot of IO versus memory, such as file compression and decompression.

    Since 3600 prices are much higher, on the budget I would go for an 3200 of $ 69 to 16GB.

  50. Quote of TheHwGeek

    Is there a formal confirmation that 3800X is only one chip? Because, as it is said on the network, a single chip provides only half of the writing bandwidth of the memory, it turns out that it is designed like this and also saves power, so maybe the 3800X has 2 chipsets? Has anyone seen an AIDA64 bandwidth check for 3800X?

    What?

    does not make sense ...

    Source?

  51. a quote

    The above graphic illustrates how Zen 2 makes the CCXs independent of the I / O block. It shows a couple of CCX complexes lashed together via Infinity Fabric to create an 8C16T chip complete with 4MB of L2 and 32MB of L3 cache. This modular CCD is then connected to the I / O chip (cIOD) via a high-speed data fabric capable of reading 32 bytes and writing 16 bytes on each clock cycle. That may cause a problem for the memory write speeds when using processors equipped with single CCD - any Ryzen 3000-series with eight or fewer cores - because the data fabric-to-UMC speed, inside the cIOD, is 32 bytes for reads and writes: they do not match.

    AMD says that this is a calculated design choice for Zen 2, due to most client workloads not writing as much. Halving the data link write speed between CCD and cIOD saves area, improves power, and has ancillary knock-on benefits, too. The downside is half-write speed because of the slowness of the data fabric in that direction.

    https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/132374-amd-ryzen-9-3900x-ryzen-7-3700x/

  52. interesting,

    But according to all the chips we saw, it really did not hit any application they measured or so I remember right now.

    So perhaps we can understand that writing (only the half-reward if I understand, not the act of reading) is less relevant

    In applications that do with this type of processor?

    It seems that a fast write rate for ram is relevant to highly specialized processing applications and those that are not common to PC computers.

    Apparently the memory reading layer is much more important. And when I think about it it's probably true,

    In the vast majority of them if not all the cases I think of, the processor needs a lot more input per output unit it spends.

    so it makes sense.

    And the truth is, I never thought of it that way, not even because we were always accustomed to the symmetrical speed of memories in the PC world.

    There may be room to consider Ah-symmetry in this area.

  53. In the ZEN architecture, the L3 cache is running in the Victim Cache mechanism. It stores lines emitted from the two cores of higher cache memory.

    All of its rebranding as Gamecache is in part a reference to the biggest problem of the ZEN architecture. The division into two CCX means that if the scheduler triggers a process from one CCX to another, or if there is a need to share information between threads running on a different CCX, it has a high impedance price. Windows very much likes to bounce the threads even without a reason and that's part of the problems that Raizen had in the games at the beginning. Updating the Scheduler to curb this behavior and optimizing games to lock threads into a particular CCX has improved the situation.

    In this situation, the Victim Cache works better because it allows the information to be extracted from a higher cache level without having to access the memory. This theory should help games, especially those that are very dynamic, but in practice the situation is much more complex, so it is nothing more than a marketing jumbo (and the term appears mainly in messages for the gaming market. , It is still called L3). Cache size has no direct impact on performance and does not change the number of cores. It was chosen according to the architecture requirements.

  54. Quote of About: blank

    Cache size does not have a one-to-one value for improvement Performence (Ie larger is not necessarily better). It was chosen according to the architecture requirements.

    With regard to the volume of cache, there is such a meaning:

    Which reduces the amount of miss and lowers the need to go down to the general RAM level of the computer. Let's learn how it works:

    When a level 3 cache is implemented (as actually embedded in the 3000 generation balance) compared to what was previously accepted in the previous counts,

    Increase the memory level Cache Level 3 from 16MB to 32MB, and after multiplying this is the probability of accessing any cache that the requested value actually sat in,

    Is statistically a double chance. That is, reduce the miss by half.

    This happens because two of the material sits in the cache at any given moment.

    This reduces the number of events down to the level of RAM known as Level 4 in half, which is known to be a slow degree of magnitude

    As opposed to the Cache Level 3 approach. In fact, the speed of access is 10 slower, about 400GB / sec compared to only 35GB / sec.

    There are quite a few applications / algorithms where there is a lot of virtualized access to those memory cells (in the application stack)

    Then the size of the dual cach has a very significant effect on performance improvement. For example, algorithms related to compression, deployment, encryption ....

    And we saw how Rizen 3000 broke through this heat and crossed Intel. It really sees one by one in practice so there is no surprise here.

    On the other hand in applications / algorithms where access to memory is more random-random and does not repeatedly ask for the same cells, such as access

    To read from the SQL data base, where the size of the cache component is of reduced importance, since in most cases it goes up to RAM,

    Because in this approach it is almost always another memory cell (random access). Such as running a report (queries), or writing a cell each time to a place

    Other in DB.

    In other words, we need to understand how the cache hierarchy works from an algorithmic methodological standpoint, and hence to link when it contributes (and very), and when its contribution is negligible

    Until irrelevant. As explained above, it depends on whether the approach is on the one hand, or the other, on the other.

    One way or another, doubling the size of the cache level 3, which first introduced the Rizn 3000 processor to a new volume in the processor industry,

    This is one of the reasons that explain the impressive leap in 15% IPC compared to the previous generation. Ie multiplying the volume

    The cache alone is already making a direct contribution to the subject, with the improvement being mainly in the places / aggrieved where there are regimative approaches to them

    Memory cells. His eye edited and distributed files as we have seen that the hawks showed us nicely and clearly.

    By the way, the next generation Intel has also significantly upgraded the cache size, meaning that Intel is working similarly to improve the IPC

    In her next architecture. It's no coincidence that it is. This is one way of doing this. If cache was not so expensive in terms of transistors that it robs,

    We would see their employer with huge volumes of this resource. Its implementation contribution is very significant in many of the most useful algorithms in the computing world.

  55. The cache of the Core and ZEN / ZEN2 architecture can not be directly compared.

    Second, a larger cache size does not necessarily contribute to performance. The higher the volume, the greater the latency, and the structure and modus operandi of the architecture is expressed.

    If there was no impedance price, why not inject a large dedicated L1 cache into each core and finish with interest (and in the ZEN2 cache the L1-I cache, which stores the command sets, is actually small)?

    ZEN's problem with Intel is a large cache access impedance, exacerbated by the split between the CCX and the traditional operating systems approach, to spread the threads as far as possible to prevent a specific electrical load at the silicon level. A reasonable approach to traditional architecture, but one that is not suitable for ZEN.

    Games are very affected because, unlike modern games, creating a number of threads and their distribution between different CCX leads to a very high impediment to information sharing and performance of games is quite a bit hurt.

    For this reason, the ZEN architecture implements a cache cache level at the L3 level in the Victim Cache mechanism to store lines that emit the two higher memory levels, which are faster but smaller, assuming that certain uses are more likely to be emitted later. The weighting of the changes here is that the memory is slower.

    The working assumption is that with the update of the Scheduler (the last big update of Windows should have been further improved) to exhaust one CCX before accessing another one and the set of commands WBNOINVD, which aims to predict too much, will need to load information into the L1 cache and free up this volume in advance by passing it to the L3 cache (similar to the browse function in writing RAM content to the disc and retrieving it as needed). A larger L3 cache size contributes more than a lower impedance.

    Performance In practice, this assumption is consistent with this assumption.

    In addition, I have not researched this in depth, and if it is implemented, I vaguely recall that AMD recalled that there is some logical partitioning in the L3 memory level so that each core accesses the memory segment closest to it physically to reduce the impedance. Usually such buffering means that all cache memory is available to each core as well.

    What's more, AMD is a traditional leader on Intel in the performance of MLP, so that the numbers are written on paper one way or the other (Intel has low impedance, AMD has a large volume) do not say much. There is always a weighting of changes and as long as the elections are made in order to extract what is possible from the architecture, the numbers themselves, including between generations of the same architecture, are quite meaningless. Not always specification with a larger or faster figure is better.

  56. No longer,

    The impedance = the latency of the Risen 3000 is better than that of Intel (ie lower) and the bandwidth is wider rather than broadband.

    In fact, Riesen's cache architecture is superior to that of Intel, and one of the contributions to this is the lithography that makes it possible

    Since it is more dense then the signal pathways are shorter.

    We can assume that not only is the cache level 3 at 3000 brisk at latency at 10% (9.4 vs. 10.5) but the bandwidth is dramatic

    Larger: 1044GB per second compared to just 397GB on integer.

    The difference is bandwidth in access bits, the 3000 prism is 2048 bit bandwidth, while Intel is only 512 bits.

    In fact, 3 also has 2 cache level 3, 10 has a lower impedance, and bandwidth is greater than 4 per bit,

    Which is translated as 2.5 to 3 in the performance of the specific Aida64 constructor.

    Other tests show opposite results. According to this test ZEN2 with lower impedance level L3 from ZEN / ZEN +. Something here does not work out.

    This is precisely the optimization of architecture. Now that the operating system runs better threads according to the architecture specification (process concentration of the same application in one CCX), the potential of architecture is more pronounced.

  57. Read more I've done another post.

    It's also hard for me to put everything on a reporter - it takes time that I do not always have.

    I will try to complete the response while ... so there will be more updates on the subject from me.

    Trying to relate to any subject raised - the rest in listening.

  58. It was a rhetorical question. Obviously the size comes at the expense of speed and vice versa, so the L1 cache memory is the smallest that is important to have the fastest.

    To sum up everything I've said, the numeric values ​​of size and velocity per se are pretty meaningless, certainly in comparison between different architectures. Increasing the size of the L3 cache has advantages but also price. Increasing it is not a magic solution to improve performance, and unnecessarily increasing it in a given architecture can even lead to performance degradation.

    post Scriptum. Could the AIDA test measure only single core performance?

  59. For your question about blank,
    I think yes - a single core. But I'm not completely close to it and you have to look in depth. You will be blessed if you do so and update us in the circular.

    Now for the second subject you wrote,

    Cache size has a definite effect, it improves depending on the algorithm implemented or in other words - the nature of access to memory

    By application type. I explained this morning a few posts up, that if it's a great reputational approach to the cartridge then size

    Cache has an important advantage. If it is more random access characterization, then the cache size is less influential (if any).

    The main places where the L3 cache size (specific) is significant in mathematical applications are mainly server jobs

    Professionalism, or workstations that deal with the same mathematical applications.

    This is less the case in a standard PC work environment because there is a need for a smaller memory.

    Thus, the RAYNZ 3000 architecture will emerge stronger in server chips than in the current Intel architecture.

    There are situations where there are tens of percent of improvement, not laughter, because the processor does not have to go down to RAM so much when there is

    A cache is so big. We've seen what happens in the shrinkage / deployment demonstrated in the latest review of Rynes 3000 vs. Intel.

    The jump that this brought to Rizn compared to his predecessor Rizen 2000 is no less dramatic.

    now,

    One of the ideas I had and I am sharing the forum here is to embed the HBM column next to the PCB of the CPU,

    To give it another layer cache level 4. In one column (if subtracted from the GPU) is 1024 bit,

    It is possible to provide bandwidth up to 256GB / sec (at today's frequency rates), which is a lot, but with huge volumes of 1-4GB RAM easily.

    Note that such a memory rate is faster than regular RAM (5-10) depending on the size of the processor.

    You can also embed 2 columns into 512GB / sec if you want more speed (additional volume is no longer needed - we're in the Giggs area at this point).

    One can only imagine what the ramifications of such a fourth-level cache will do for processor CPU performance, in applications that need a lot

    Fast and accessible memory (especially on servers). This will be a real revolution in the industry. The additional cost to the processor in my quick estimate should be

    Between 50-100 $ only (order of principle) to one column. Double for two pages.

    I will not be discriminated if later we will start seeing such processors also, at least initially in the server segment because this name is very significant.

    I'm even thinking of moving this offer to Intel and / or AMD to test it as a springboard for performance improvement in their sequential processors.

    I see before my eyes huge 32-64 CPUs for the xeon / epyc server segment that hold 4 such towers, 1024GB / sec bandwidth,

    And a total volume of 32GB. These processors of 1000-5000 $ are already already, for them the additional price required to implement HBM idle in sixty.

    Performance will be crazy and not something we have seen in our regions.

    The advantage of this huge cache level 4 will increase as the processor holds more cores - Kerry can eat more junk food.

    We are shortly before the 128 cores per succet, it's the solution sewn to him like a glove near. The RAM speed is normal for a long time

    A modern computer, so the processor can not reach its full potential. That's what I want to solve.

  60. Quote of Jabberwock

    The impedance to DRAM memory increased.

    I thought that Windows was running on a method Round-robin scheduling With CPU interferometers periodically measuring time

    In my opinion (an intelligent guess that seems to be quite true) this was due to the new configuration of the use of separate IO die to the processor core,

    What raises the signal path (significant) should go from the die to the IO chip, which in turn turns to memory.

    This increases the latency and not a little.

    The thing is that the latency to RAM is less relevant once inter chip communications no longer pass through it,

    But through - IO chip itself (without going out of there).

    That is, they increased the latency in one place, at the expense of the latency shortcut elsewhere. In practice we have seen that this has improved performance

    The measuring processor, and did not retract any measurable section. So you can be calm.

  61. Quote of About: blank

    Windows Very much like to bounce threads even for no reason

    By the way, this subject you wrote is very interesting, but he has a reason - he did not just do it:

    The operating system processes the processes across the cores in order to homogenize processor utilization.

    Striving to bring about the situation that all the cores will be loaded in the same and equal way as possible,

    Ie there will be a situation in which one core is suffocated with an 100% of load because for example it is stuck in heavy deployments,

    That because they do not pass them then they suffocate the core,

    While the rest of the cores are quite idle.

    The desire is to perform sometimes random rounds, which in turn contribute to homogenization that improves the average load

    Over all the cores. Reach 25% in each of the kernel 4 for example. Look how the system tries

    To reach a situation in which the cores will be chewed and not just one of them. Thus, overall processor performance increases because there is optimal allocation of resources.

    A second reason is a better thermal dispersion to diffuse the heat across the surface in a homogeneous manner. A secondary cause but also good.

    However, if this transfer of the projectors creates a deficiency in such an architecture, it will return to the location of the vector in the geographic space

    Of the processor has a meaning, as it is in the Brezan - because of the division known to separate CCX modules,

    So the algorithm of the fluoridation system gets an update that teaches it that if it is Rizen to stop bouncing slices between the cores and more,

    Allows software code to place its own versions in a flexible and independent way. Such as letting an application run with all

    Its sliced ​​in one CCX. This is something that was added to the Windows operating system over time and the patches it received after Razen was born,

    So we often see a performance improvement of this processor at the last time. The processor called what they called good because they started

    To refer to the times of the operating system and the code of software, which now enable them to manage the processes more flexibly.

  62. Quote of TheHwGeek

    I wonder when we'll see the refresh of all the AM4 handsets, now with 3700X they can successfully compete on 9900K handsets even while emitting lower heat and life battery More significant hook.

    Most likely within the 2 roof quarter.

    Specifically, AMD's 7nm advantage benefits significantly more than desktop.

    After all, there is no significance to the electricity consumption in the PC. The power is fed from the wall, but there is great significance in a mobile product that uses a battery.

    This is a period of time until you need to recharge.

  63. How do you know that Intel understands that they are not in good shape to say the least? For the first time, God knows how Intel is cutting the price of the I7 processors over the lifetime of the product (I7 9900KF dropped to 440 $):

  64. In the meantime he is having a little fun comparing the Rizen Generation 2000 to the 3000 generation, for the improvement it puts into the memory cache layer.

    Let us pay attention to the improvement in the bandwidths that were made in the transition to the new lithography,

    Or actually what 7nm allows because of the great shrink it brings to the arena.

    We note that there is more to this than a doubling of 2 in most indices. It's a lot and it's impressive.

    There is no doubt that this is a decisive contribution to the improvement in the IPC obtained when the processor is fed and fed at a rapid pace

    More significantly, enabling him to work more efficiently and less to be required to wait for food:

  65. Something very strange happens with the tension tables of the boards, they really bomb the tension without reason, Stefansi also found that even the OC of 4.3GHZ for all cores was stable under 1.2V to 3700X, but somehow the boards bombard volts and produce excess heat and the processors look bad.

    It is interesting to see more tests of the subject, because it is not clear to me what the effect of static voltage setting on the Bost frequencies, in 2700X lowering the voltage in the negative OFFSET was indeed a contributor but I did not have much maneuver like here because the Bost to a single core would be damaged and destabilize.

  66. Rezin's current consumption of 3000 is low, so when no voltage load is increased to maintain a given power. According to reports, under stress load decreases (because the current is rising) confirming the matter.

    However, it is clear that something (PBO) is not completely polished here. Hopefully this is a childhood disease but there is really no other way to deal with low-flow consumption to reach a given power.

  67. The thing is, just as you see people start to see that the boards are making OVERVOLT and as a result the consumption increases and the heat is emitted, something is really wrong with the new bosses. You can also see that the 3800X is as precise as the 3700X in performance, there is no way AMD thought about fish distribution with 20% With almost double TDP to get the same performance, something is really wrong, and even the PBO AUTO OC does nothing but 3600.

    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-3800x-review,6226.html

  68. Yes, absolutely. Something does not fit into this behavior. The platform is only a week in the market. You have to give her at least a few more good weeks and see where things stand then. We must hope that these are childhood illnesses that are solvable.

  69. Remember that we said and repeated it countless times,

    Give each new technology at least a quarter before you buy it, to give it time to ripen and mature?

    So here we have childhood diseases that arise. And there will be other ones that will not kill himself.

    I will not touch the product for at least two quarters,

    Because I have no patience for mishaps and bugs. I want a well polished platform.

    So I will not purchase before January 2020.

    Works in the methodology of a professional engineer, and recommends that everyone work that way.

  70. I'm building on December 2019. Is supposed to be in the US on a semi-annual visit, and intends to upgrade.

    Some Ryzen 3 and some red card (if there is one to compete at the top). I hope that childhood sickness will be behind us until then.

  71. I hope that by December there will be a response from the green side to a card in the 700-800 segment that will compete with Nevidia's top dog.

    Until then I will stay with my faithful pair of ovens (R9 390X).

  72. 390 and two more in the same box?

    This throws in an 500-600 heat-watt environments.

    Like a real low power oven.

    Great winter, saves the need to run heating in the room but in the summer .... Ala Yustur.

    I had only one of them and it was already over and over to not want more warmth.

    At least the performance was great in 1080P, I did not feel that something was missing from the experience.

    I sold it last year to 2018 and upgraded on 3 Etrations

    Until I reached today's 1080Ti. He's already an Overkill

    Go to 1080p but let's have .... I got it well below the market price.

  73. Quote of nec_000

    390 and two more in the same box?

    This throws in an 500-600 heat-watt environments.

    Like a real low power oven.

    Great winter, saves the need to run heating in the room but in the summer .... Ala Yustur.

    I had only one of them and it was already over and over to not want more warmth.

    At least the performance was great in 1080P, I did not feel that something was missing from the experience.

    I sold it last year to 2018 and upgraded on 3 Etrations

    Until I reached today's 1080Ti. He's already an Overkill

    Go to 1080p but let's have .... I got it well below the market price so it was not so bad.

    I was with such 4 in the same chassis. It was fun :)

    But there were waterblocks on everyone, so in terms of noise and heat was fine inside the chassis.

  74. The blocks remove all heat directly into the chassis. You had an oven 1200 watts heat power in the room.

    In winter I fantasized of course.

    Great for cold countries like Canada, for example, which needs heating most of the year.

    But in the summer? In Israel?

    The air conditioner probably worked hard to get over it (when it worked at full power).

  75. Quote of nec_000

    390 and two more in the same box?

    This throws in an 500-600 heat-watt environments.

    Like a real low power oven.

    Great winter, saves the need to run heating in the room but in the summer .... Ala Yustur.

    I had only one of them and it was already over and over to not want more warmth.

    At least the performance was great in 1080P, I did not feel that something was missing from the experience.

    I sold it last year to 2018 and upgraded on 3 Etrations

    Until I reached today's 1080Ti. He's already an Overkill

    Go to 1080p but let's have .... I got it well below the market price so it was not so bad.

    Indeed, it also reaches the 650W supplier with full effort if you let it. Especially when one of them was rushed from the base frequency (1050Mhz) to 1260Mhz (at the time Jay achieved a similar result and what I remember was the highest air cooling for these blended Grenada chips in Blanche)

    Great card I bought at a joke price (I bought directly from MSI NIS Blanch in wonderful coolness from MSI, with the active cooling on the memory and huge chips on the chip, next to the GTX 1200 that cost an average of NIS 970 market and managed to beat it in most games) , But after 500 years of loyal service, they are beginning to show their exceptional age in the new games.

    It's time to climb to 1440p with a vision ahead of 4K, if and when in three generations, when I want to upgrade again, it will be a standard bounce, too, at the back of the price to jump into it.

  76. Quote of nec_000

    He imagines that it pleases him, for she needs material from her grandfather Gornisht.

    No nec said, who is nec at all.

    Studies in the field have found this.

    What pleases pleasure is gathering experiences.

    For example, a trip, a trip abroad, a restaurant, food, play, a water park, a challenging attraction,

    Sports, hobbies, experiencing some or all of those mentioned together with friends and family - experiences of all kinds.

    It does burn Memories And he is happy. Do not believe ? Read some research on ...

    Even experiences arise more than once Money is true, but there is no correlation between the cost of experience,

    To the intensity of pleasure and happiness that it conveys. Also found in studies. simply incredible.

    Can be an experience that costs a dime, and it brings a lot more pleasure than another experience that costs 1000 a shekel.

    Anyone who thinks he will buy a luxury car, a luxury watch, a new computer at 30, and think it is

    Which will make him happy, or excited .... He lives in a movie.

    Again, the studies found this in a determined and brutal manner. Not about not near, but unequivocally.

    Examined the happiness that the experimenters reported and measured in their blood chemistry, in addition to psychological and psychiatric diagnosis - attacked from all directions.

    Only experience and memory bring lasting pleasure and happiness. And the giant.

    You are not accurate and misleading people and rope ...

    "Material Consumption from Nothing" Obviously, it has not been scientifically proven that shopping such as shopping causes happiness, but it is momentary and varies from person to person and between the level of view and the same thing that he purchases / purchases.

    The momentary happiness is caused by the release of andropin hormone which, as I mentioned above, is a hormone that causes happiness.

    Likewise, Plato's perfect happiness is the study, the learning, because it does not depend on it.

    And last thing you have other inaccuracies experiences can be good or bad and you can not ignore it and therefore it is not perfect happiness.

    The author is a Doctor of Psychology

  77. As an "interesting" psychology doctor who didn't teach you - not to repeat the same answer twice in the forum and another two days apart,

    As if we had not seen her before (but we ignored) not just for nothing.

    Another notable thing, psychology is not defined as science, certainly not medicine, and for some years now there has been a serious thought to remove from academia

    Read on for information.

    In retrospect, several expert psychiatrists in the US came up with this in the field of brain research (read the book "The Female Brain" by the well-known neuroscientist

    Professor Louise Byzendine), whose psychology originated in the cult in the 19 century. A sect of life (following Proyd's strong PR work more than anything else),

    Somehow she managed to gain entry to the academy in the back door and took root there by virtue of inertia, while the standard academy was still being cleaned up

    Such a thing managed to penetrate under the radar.

    Notice (in the last two decades, you will see this in the professor's research mentioned above) that the science and science methodologies are acceptable,

    There was no use for them in classical psychology, and it was subsequently understood (in retrospect) that psychology is not a science, but more than a religious voodoo that does not use it.

    In any accepted research method, it is "science" lacking the required evidentiary evidence, lacking statically significant research methods - those required in each test

    Scientific or medical.

    In modern times there is a real intention to remove it as a formal medical or academic profession, the first buds of this are found in American regulation in the field

    Leading the issue (world-class). So be careful with what you are currently studying "in your doctorate," you may be left in such and such years,

    With a diploma but one that is not considered anything significant, she wondered toothless in the medical academic legal world.

    To this fascinating enlightenment that psychology is not a science and is not an academy in essence, (by chance) introduced me half a decade ago, a good childhood friend of mine,

    Who is an expert clinical psychologist in his education. He currently serves as CEO of high-tech by the way. He shared these sensational findings that are groundbreaking

    And thanks to that, I read some research books of the human brain, including the book mentioned above that he also highly recommended.

    If the move materializes down the road, that is, academic medicine will be able to push the "cult of psychology" out of academic standard,

    You and your counterparts will be in trouble. You will be required to perform a professional conversion and complete medical education. Take this into account,

    The profession is in danger of seeing 20 a year ahead.

  78. Quote of nec_000

    As an "interesting" psychology doctor who didn't teach you - not to repeat the same answer twice in the forum and another two days apart,

    As if we had not seen her before (but we ignored) not just for nothing.

    Another important thing, psychology is not defined as science, and certainly not medicine, And for several years there has been a serious thought to remove it

    From academia read on to complete information.

    In retrospect, several US psychiatrists in the field of brain research have come up with this (read the book "The Female Brain" by a researcher

    The well-known brain Professor Louis Bisendein), that psychology originated in the 19 cult. (Following a strong PR work)

    More than anything else), somehow managed to enter the academy at the back door and was entrenched there by force of inertia at an hour

    That the standard academy was still in its infancy.

    Notice (in the last two decades, you will see it in the study of the researcher mentioned above) that the methodologies science And schools of thought

    A study of admissibility, no use was made of classical psychology, and it was understood (in hindsight) that psychology is not science, but rather

    Religious voodoo, which does not use any accepted research methods, and is a required "thesis" without required evidentiary evidence, without research methods

    Static significance - those that are required for any scientific or medical test.

    In modern times there is a far-reaching intention to remove it as an academic profession in a formal way, the first signs of this are found in regulation

    American in the field leading the issue. Be careful where with what you are currently studying "in your doctorate," you may want to stay longer

    So and so for years with a certificate of such "profession" that is not considered anything significant, she wondered toothless in the legal world

    Academic and medical.

    To this fascinating enlightenment, that psychology is not science And not an academic in essence, brought me (by chance) half a decade ago, a childhood friend

    My goodness is that he is an expert clinical psychologist in his education. He currently serves as CEO of high-tech by the way. He shared the sensational findings

    These are groundbreaking, thanks to which I have read several research books of the human brain, including the above-mentioned research book that I was strongly recommended,

    The book mentions the subject in connection with the terrible mistakes made in psychology in the last century, when treating women in a compatible manner

    Medicine as priests in African tribes (thanks to Freud who was discovered charlatan).

    If the move materializes down the road, that is, medicine will be able to push the "cult of psychology" out of the ordinary

    Academically, you and your counterparts will be in trouble - you will be required to complete a profession and complete a real academic education.

    https://www.amazon.com/Female-Brain-Louann-Brizendine/dp/0767920104/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+female+brain&qid=1563280063&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    Hey,

    I repeated Same answer Twice because I thought you missed the first post (this is the first time I respond here) anyway I realize it's hard for you to get it wrong.

    It is most convenient to go from defense to attack when Ray is mistaken you are the one who wrote and I quote "Check the happiness that the scientists have reported and measured with them in blood chemistry, in addition to psychological and psychiatric diagnosis - attacked from all directions." So you are the one here relying on his answer to the psychological studies you disdain.

    I also claim that you were wrong in the first part of your comment that you wrote "Material consumption Gornisht"And I explained to you unequivocally why this is wrong and even more so I also declare like you who have researched the topic from all directions and you are invited to look for academic articles and prove that I am right and shopping causes an endorphin secretion that causes a feeling of happiness.

    In addition, instead of belittling my profession and trying to put in a subject that is not connected in any way to my reaction, you will examine yourself and if you think I am wrong, you are more than welcome to show me a study or an academic article that contradicts what I wrote.

  79. This discussion will stop being off-topic and further messages will continue in private messages only. Also, its continuation will provide participants with a delayed discussion from the system without prior warning.

  80. Quote of djelectric

    This discussion will stop being off-topic and continue to continue in messages Privacy only. Also, its continuation will provide participants with a delayed discussion from the system without prior warning.

    Begins to worry that any discussion is dragged into dozens of pages of offtopic that also disturbs potential participants, and I consider what to do to prevent this in the future.

    Hey,

    I apologize for breaking the rules of the forum, it is important for me to emphasize that I am not the one who started this discussion, I simply could not ignore his disdain for my profession and also write down things that wrong research and mislead people so it was important for me to show him his mistake because there are innocent people here That may receive incorrect information and rope.

  81. There's a sense that anyone who doesn't align with the agenda, it doesn't always make sense for this guy to be off-topic.


    It is unclear to me why the site's management is trying to shut up the mouths of some who oppose the silence and constant condescension of one man.

    Don't be upset that he is derogatory and insulting and writes a doctor with quotes as if you purchased the diploma.
    He persists with disrespect and condescension over everyone equally - it's not personal against you.

    Please see what I wrote recently - it pretty much connects to your response:
    "There may well be a pretty familiar personal problem here.

    A person who refers to himself in the third person or in many cases suffers from feelings of inferiority, self-alienation, aggressiveness or the need for control.
    Feelings of inferiority, fear, and low self-confidence are hidden behind the self-importance that such a person gives himself while creating a barrier between himself and those around him.
    There are studies that confirm the claims that these people see themselves as the purpose of everything, will present the people in a negative light and trampled them in order to glorify themselves.

    Let's assume the personal side and gain from the technical side that is probably much stronger - as with many other geniuses. "

    It seems to me that there is already more than one "doctor" here who identifies a problematic pattern in the "like a doctor" for hardware.
    Dear site staff, please take care of them and not those who like the disgusting style of the genius of Vilna.

  82. Quite logical, given that the money for expanding the US factories has just come in. Until then another 14NM generation is expected, and then maybe using 10NM to open Ice-Lake U.'s Node way to "restoration" One does not die, meanwhile) is expected to be relatively long by then, perhaps they will get a little more sense and decide to cut prices accordingly.

  83. Quote of djelectric

    Until then another generation 14NM desktop is expected, perhaps they will get a little more mind and decide to cut prices accordingly.

    From what I understood the rumors about another generation in 14NM (+++?) Were fake.

    About lowering prices - Intel never did it, and if after the Reisen 2 launch they did not, I would not catch my breath.

  84. She reaches the dead end that will probably force me to do it, inevitably. Regarding that fake presentation, I don't consider it, I haven't done it since it was invented. Our healthy relationship with Chipzilla lets us know about things like this instead :)

    But there is still some potential to exhaust the way the CFL series works in terms of branding and pricing. Maybe they'll decide to do something about it. Something tells me that maybe a new branding program will come soon

  85. Start out with reviews of the more modest and worthwhile chips, 3600 / X. Slow in 5% of 9600K / 3900X and 9900K in 10% only in games. In error range of 2% from 3700X for games in 1080P. The higher the resolution the difference Diminishing of course.
    When you look at the numbers, you realize that 6 is the new 4.
    Furthermore, performance improvement is becoming increasingly small except for specific tests and specific software.

    3600 is the most powerful of the top ten in price / performance.

    The need for 3600X lied significantly (25% extra $$) I do not really find much in view of OC capabilities that are almost nonexistent. Maybe some marketing segment.

  86. What do you think will happen to PASSMARK after the 3950X exits? Because Intel is going to look really bad and this is a bunch that many professional software sites refer to:

    I added a picture to the illustration, in my opinion the 3950C should send around the 37,000 points plus or minus 500 points.

    spacer.png

    I personally hope that the site will close, but it's just wishful thinking that for many years now things have been presented in a distorted and sharp way.

  87. Quote of djelectric

    I personally hope that the site will close, but it's just wishful thinking that for many years now things have been presented in a distorted and sharp way.

    Ah, what? Detail, explanation and model.

  88. Quote of Gico

    Ah, what? Detail, explanation and model.

    Sites like Passmark do not measure realistically hardware performance. I'm not always in favor when science distorts the results that are supposed to represent such a thing

  89. Quote of djelectric

    Sites like Passmark do not measure realistically hardware performance. I'm not always in favor when science distorts the results that are supposed to represent such a thing

    It turns out that I predicted the future, I saw the next post and it turns out that userbenchmark has already made sure to change the formula to calculate "Avg. Bench%" and now Intel profited from the change, good / bad / right? Decide for yourself:
    https://www.overclock.net/forum/21-benchmarking-software-discussion/1730058-userbenchmark-website.html#post28056068

    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

    http://web.archive.org/web/20190713183018/https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

  90. As is usually the case, it's all about interest.

    And when the interest is money, there are those who paid and there are those who supposedly updated the formula in order to get along according to the payer's flute.

    Serious people and industry professionals are not interested in these nonsense of PR sites.

    There are far more effective and professional methods to test performance.

    But above all, today's performance (among all the two CPUs) is so close that it's not an interesting matter.

    Because as long as the gap is plus or minus 5%, what exactly can you do with such a gap?

    This is analogous to the fact that instead of waiting for 500 seconds for the batch process to be completed say, then wait for 520 seconds.

    And what does it matter anyway?

    Also, it is only under such a condition, known as a peak power of 100%, something that in practice does not happen.

    In general, the bottleneck has always been in the IO layer rather than in the processor that always enjoys spacing over the IO,

    So the CPU layer is much less interesting.

    I am a professional in this world of computation, servers, parquet applications and more, no practical cases of 100% effort.

    It is only in synthetics that you consider intentional, so it is irrelevant.

    Usually the processor in the machine is between 5-50% when in normal condition with head room,

    And if the load exceeds 50%, follow up and see when to upgrade the machine.

    When it shows a touch above 80% start planning to upgrade (for a powerful machine between 4 and 16 - because less than that in no time consumes)

    And all to lower the CPU consumption to a quarter to six-tenths. Read again 5-20%.

    How many professional people in the industry really have, who know how to examine the subject and make purchasing decisions accordingly?

    Not a $ 500 computer, but millions of equipment that serves an industry, a huge company, a farm…

    From the internet reviewing industry for children's PCs, I haven't even seen one. They talk about crap like FPS

    And if someone (like in a car race) wins the other one by 10 inches or one-tenth of a second orbit, they win it and do more drama

    (Because these are the gaps many times).

    But this is a definition of forced victory, one that is for the sake of procool, only because one must say that someone is first.

    Who cares about orbiting in 2.37 seconds or 2.375?

    Maybe fans of motor sports.

    I do not want to offend anyone who is studying computational machine performance, so I will spare writing what it is worth as a man to listen to his words.

    I would love to see if you find and help me find industry professionals who view biotubs, I'm dying to see one.

    I've been looking so far and haven't been able to. Apparently, professionals don't really write reviews, apparently they work more as industry consultants - usually in salaries

    $ 100 per sizing advice.

    I employ some of these in a variety of areas in the computer world, from data security, to system analysts, continue to segment segment experts

    Needed - whether it's a data base expert, a communications systems expert, and more….

    The professional world looks radically different in the methods in which it performs performance research, and in how it presents them to a client who invites consulting work.

    Much more interesting, for example, is reliability, robustness, faults, compatibility, support, capabilities… Performance is shown in gaps of hundreds of percent.

    If one tool or system outperforms another, show a gap in the 5-50% gap that doesn't even write on paper, it's boring.

    But introducing a component or application or software or device that improves by hundreds of percent over another is already getting interesting.

    I was introduced to the last acquisition by a compression method and de-duplication that shows an increase in the size of the storag, averaging between 4 and 5.5.

    Now start making me listen. I bought the product, and it meets what they promised. From every Terra Sturg in the Flash I get 4 to 5.5 volume

    Which lowers my cost to the actual fifth. Stunning.

    The card that does the compression and deployment does so in real time with no server flushing, because it is a separate layer. hearing

    For the operating system, it sees a much larger volume and is transparent to it.

    This is an example of how a technological product is presented in the industry, and the customers convince us to buy it. We paid for the actual 14TB storage,

    We got 60-80TB storage volume in practice .. everything flash.

    These are the sizes and advances you get to make a new machine replacement. Or the sizes you get to be interested

    In a new field and invest the time in it just to test it. If they came to me and showed me compression that improves by 5%, I would ask them

    If they make fun of me, or I have to slam their phone in the face.

  91. Excuse me, but what does this whole monologue have to do with hardware reviewers that are designed for the home market, or a roof for a home office?

    What is the connection between a ryzen processor and a server farm?

    When I check which storage solution to use in the business, there are certain criteria, and they are not relevant to home systems in many cases.

  92. You asked what the connection was?

    If you are a computer science graduate you should know well the connection between professional and private market.

    It's the same thing, only in a smaller skyscraper. The essence is the same.

    What is different is the "consultants" and the markets, which (unfortunately) is not the same.

    Is not the same because one field is professional, the way decision-making and conclusions are professional and academic strictly,

    And another area is "consumer goods" oriented in the essence of the decisions that are made in it. There is a big difference.

    Market access should be misleading and in fact create a distortion in the home market through decision making. There is no decision that gets rationalized.

    It misses the right to enjoy professionalism on the road and in decision-making processes.

    Not only in the PC field but in every other consumer area it exists

    The same shit when you have reviews in a car press about which car you should buy.

    Does anyone in the field of automotive engineering look like a huge proprietor who purchases 100,000 vehicles in every batch, turning to the Monthly Auto to get an opinion?

    he is not.

    He is an assembler of automotive industry expert consultants, and through a group of several professionals, one in finance, another in depreciation,

    Others in wear and tear, another in safety, another in human engineering, and more ... doing ad hoc work and giving them a professional recommendation

    Weighted performance research rod, of all relevant sections together.

    Back to the computing world,

    For those who have the professional knowledge in this industry, they can also use it for the needs of the domestic sector, and thus get added value.

  93. Absolutely disagree.

    The things that are important in the business sector are not as important to the home user as there is no reason to pay for them. Those you specify for example:

    Reliability, Robustness, Faults, Compatibility, Support, Capabilities

    The home user and the business user will arrange them in a completely different order of importance.

  94. Agree with the captain up. Although the two segments share identical desires to their systems, the priorities are quite different.

    One of the reasons that most business institutions today prefer Intel regardless of the performance cap is due to the high reliability they have provided over the years, and the desire to maintain the rich ecosystem built with it over time. A private consumer, on the other hand, will put that kind of credibility as a marginal thing - once there are good hardware recommendations - it will buy faster than a business company if and when the recommendations are written.

  95. exactly,

    The home consumer will not make a rational and in-depth sufficiently complex, as for him, we will say and make a mistake.

    After all, what does it mean?

    So the whole thing went wrong and threw $ 1000 in the trash, that's the order of magnitude of damage it caused.

    And less often, because not every computer he bought was a mistake - but usually just one (or two) component he chose wrong.

  96. In addition, I'm sorry but what about the computer science studies (a degree I have, before you ask)?

    The degree in computer science is mostly theoretical mathematics (at least when I studied in Tel Aviv), and there is no connection between it and some consideration in purchasing a computer for a private home…

  97. Quote of 243 56

    Agree with the captain up. Although the two segments share identical desires to their systems, the priorities are quite different.

    One of the reasons that most business institutions will now prefer Intel Regardless of the performance ceiling is due to the high reliability they have provided over the years, and the desire to maintain the rich ecosystem built with it over time. A private consumer, on the other hand, will put that kind of credibility as a more marginal thing - once there are good hardware recommendations - it will buy faster than a business company if and when the recommendations are written.

    I don't want to be a brat, but even in the server world that you do not understand much ... Most of my information comes from some sort of mishap whether on the Internet or from organizations that work with and are interested in the issue :)

    Buyers or more correctly bought Intel not because of service or reliability but lack of competition

    Intel was a sow from the beginning. Its conduct with regard to the competition was beneath all this criticism. Why was it difficult for those who tried to immigrate?

    I'm for a hobby dealing with home computers and people buying junk without knowing and so I see organizations of small to medium size ... don't even know what AMD is ... shame !!!

  98. A funny mud battle. If no one buys these horribly expensive plates for no good at least be a thrash action.
    Cheap PR exercises, my heart with those who drift after it.

  99. https://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/48981-amd-ryzen-9-3950-ryzen-9-3900-ryzen-5-3500-und-weitere-ryzen-pro-prozessoren/

    As we will see, there are other models for the new generation on the way, and what I find interesting is that there is a discounted version of 3950 with the 100-000000033 SKU - this is also what AMD used for the WR Peaks, it's interesting that now after the spoils of 3900X we know it is actually complex One selected chip is inferior and therefore the maximum OC for all cores is limited to 4.3GHZ, while the selected chip can reach up to 4.7GHZ.

    As seen, the reduced version of 3950 will be used with two such lower cylinders and this is also why the maximum OC for cooling water was 4.3GHZ - whereas the expensive version would come with premium 2 cylinders and perhaps 4.5 ~ 4.6GHZ would be possible with selected aqueous coolers.

    We hope that at least until then all the problems of the bosses will be resolved :-).

  100. I see no problem with ASUS PR presentation and provided it is honest and genuine. If it is, for that matter yes,

    Then they can reply to AMD Look for a tour. Asus owes them nothing, especially as an electronics manufacturer

    The largest and most widely considered household sector in this industry.

    It is more appropriate to say that a brand that Asus does not work with is a problem - not Asus.

  101. Quite obvious and nothing new about it, 7NM is just beginning and is far from realizing its potential. 14 NM has been polishing and fine-tuning for several years now with "+", "++" and another "+++" on the way from Intel.
    This is how speeds in 100MHZ for CPU or 50MHZ for GPU improve and call it refresh. Everything to show a product release sequence for the sake of investors.
    The existing consumer has no practical meaning or relevance.

  102. But for ZEN3 already has N7 + in production, the difference is that ZEN3 should be designed for production at N7 + while everything currently manufactured at N7 can be transferred directly to N7P.

  103. Almost a month after launch, 3900x has no store in the country.

    Anyone know from past cases how long does it take for stores to organize and sell freely?

  104. Quote by darkPH

    Almost a month after launch, 3900x has no store in the country yet.

    Anyone know from past cases how long does it take for stores to organize and sell freely?

    It's not exactly accurate.

    There are in the country and there will be in the country but there is an allocation of the X processors ie 3600 and above and although there are hundreds of orders by the importer he receives individual every week and then divides them by turn to pre-ordered stores.

    So every week we get processors and tomorrow we should go in for example 3600X and 3700X which were missing about a week and a half. And the processors are divided in order.

    So any time you don't queue up at your favorite store …… In my opinion, the wait time now for the 3900X processor is at least a month with us.

    And there is stock 3800X (unit or two as of today). And tomorrow 3600X may remain vacant but not sure at all.

  105. Encouraged to hear about the impressive amount of orders, the next quarter of AMD will be much greener than those in attendance.
    Hopefully no more bios issues will come to light when there is already a mass of users hurting it.

  106. Any of us ever remember,

    Such panic and insane storming of the stores, and more so for what?

    For CPU processor thrombosis that doesn't really change the world order in terms of performance?

    Total Risen 3 aligns line with Intel's unlocked k processors in terms of performance power, that's all.

    The only thing new here is the price. that's it.

    Something here doesn't seem reasonable, or rational by my standards.

    After all, those who wanted a performance of 3700x / 3800x could already buy a year ago 9900k,

    He did not have to upset the stores just now.

  107. Because I think that only 2500K / 2600K / 3770K owners will jump to the new control and you already have the shortage of new processors, keep in mind that Intel 8 / 9 series owners are in the minority compared to the old processors up to 7700K.

    They finally had a good reason to upgrade, as opposed to people who upgrade on a regular basis and they have the same 8 / 9 series and they don't have to rank for now.

  108. Quote of nec_000

    Any of us ever remember,

    Such panic and insane storming of the stores, and more so for what?

    For CPU processor thrombosis that doesn't really change the world order in terms of performance?

    Total Risen 3 aligns line with unlocked k processors Intel In terms of performance supplier, that's all.

    The only thing new here is the price.

    Something here doesn't seem reasonable, or rational enough in my standards.

    After all, whoever wanted a level Performence 3700x / 3800x failure could already buy a year ago 9900k,

    He did not have to upset the stores just now.

    And those who are content with the level Performence Of about 15% less, could buy a year ago 2700x,

    And there was no need to wait for the addition of 15% just to "storm" today.

    Consumers probably work with the eggs instead of the head. I have no other reasonable explanation.

    Although a straight line ... but the 9900K and the whole system will happen to the Reisen Nation.

  109. It pays yes,

    But "onslaught"?

    To the point of incomplete and waiting queue ?!

    I would "storm" yes, if I got 2 frequency of work compared to current technology (or 2 IPC - that's convenient).

    But in order to get the whole supplier of thrombosis the same as what has been on the market so far, that is, nothing is renewed and no glass ceilings have been breached,

    Because that's what it actually is ... only for 40% off price, 330 $ instead of 580 $ ...

    With all due respect (and honestly there is respect and appreciation), this does not (and does) cause me (and me) to "storm" and attack the stores.

    We know a little better than what is called a significant leap forward. This is not the case nor is it so close.

    The one who is in turmoil is probably an impulsive consumer who lives in trends and PR. For health, suckers don't die but just take turns.

    I don't mind making money on their backs, really not.

  110. Quote of nec_000

    I will increase to say something like this:

    That if I have enough 2500k processor then it probably is enough for 99% of consumersSo be honest with reality.

    It looks more like "I am the state and the state is me"……

  111. There is a small logical failure in your argument. Anyone who faced a decision a year ago to upgrade to Intel's ninth generation or wait for Reisen 3000 was missing the information we have today about Reisen 3000. It's like brushing off someone today to decide whether to buy Reisen 3000 versus Reisen 4000 / Intel's 10th generation for which there is no solid and reliable information yet. You can guess about that, but that's all it is - a guess (maximum informed).

    And it only makes sense that whoever waited, opted at the end of Breezan that earns more performance with less money (not just processor cost but platform price) and energy / heat consumption.

    Beyond that, first-quarter inventory shortages are quite common. The Reisen 3000 case is really not unique. This has happened with Reisen 1000 and in the past happened with Intel (Skylake for example, although not the same order of magnitude). However, since Intel has been frozen on the yeast for about a decade, we have not seen much in recent years that there was no reason .

  112. And still, shoppers are not educated in the field of computation, and are running for a percentage of crumbs to upgrade a computer. They are the ones who bought 2600K after 3770K.

    After that, change 4790K, and after a year 6770K and then and there….

    You and I know they are guys who make purchases without any understanding of what they are doing.

    This time, however, this is not a performance improvement, but a reduction of about 40% compared to the same computational power until yesterday.

    Also, for the 40% discount, this is not a temporary operation that is about to end, so Ruth has to catch it because tomorrow is over.

    The latest price is the new bar of price for these products.

    Don't want to upgrade just because the price is especially cheap when the price is going to stay fixed indefinitely.

    Upgrading a product / tool that needs upgrading. What the mass consumer simply doesn't understand (and what that means for us about the typical consumer and the psychological behavior

    Of the people in the consumer field).

    incidentally,

    The current onslaught case is very similar to the Risen 1000 generation, and unlike any other generation. This time, really delusional pictures arrived,

    Of people standing in line the night before on the sidewalk in front of Microsoft and its like, like the launch of a new iPhone.

    It has never been in the CPU field. This is something of a precedent in the processor world.

    The explanation is probably that the CPU product was made in terms of the consumer, as trendy as buying any iPhone X generation.

    Or in short - the whole reason for mass procurement is basically one big thing. About PR. On the market. About Dark Sex.

    Someone here managed to pull off a sophisticated marketplace for Rizan 3000, what Apple managed to do for the iPhone.

    Wouldn't be surprised if they hired the services of the same marketing genius and PR who worked for Apple, as someone who also did the job behind the farmers

    In this case of Risen 3000.

    Standing on the sidewalk the night before just to purchase a processor for your PC at home before it runs out?

    Where has such insanity sounded so far.

  113. Quote of nec_000

    And still, shoppers are not educated in the field of computation, and are running for a percentage of crumbs to upgrade a computer. They are the ones who bought 2600K after 3770K.

    After that, change 4790K, and after a year 6770K and then and there….

    A claim that is backed up with zero information. And because of that, all the rest of the argument is extremely shaky and does not hold water. Hypotheses, guesses, and cognitive biases that stem from your inability to accept a different set of considerations than your own.

  114. Definitely,

    Anyone who performs voice acquisition in a way that contradicts professional logic, or performance logic, or practical-practical logic, or the logic of the applied discipline (computer science),

    Or economic logic, certainly makes an error in my understanding of his consumerism And it has nothing to do with my own ability to get a different weighting than my own.

    On the contrary, I would very much like to taste and hear about logic in equivalence that is different from my own in the field.

    I am more than open to hearing its rationalization so I can be convinced and learn something new or a different perspective.

    Are you or anyone able to explain to us (and me) so that we understand the logic of the onslaught?

    Let's open a discussion and try to give a rationale for the need for acquisition and the observed onslaught. Get started with you - the microphone passes to you.

  115. You refuse to have the pleasure of purchasing something new.

    From your stuff you can understand that there is no performance difference between a pre-8 processor and a modern processor (with more cores, more threads and more IPC)

    The one that you think is 2500K enough, it's cute. But that doesn't really stand the test of reality. People want to maximize gaming performance, and two years ago 2500K was a bottleneck for cards like GTX1080.

    I'm already guessing what to say now "You can't pay attention to the difference between 60 and 100 FPS and if you want more FPS just lower the quality to MEDIUM / LOW"

    I know it's hard for you to accept, but for some people it's not enough and takes them away from the fun.

  116. Quote of nec_000

    This time they arrived תמונות Really delusional,

    Of people standing in line the night before on the sidewalk in front of a microcenter and the like, similar to waterings of iPhone New.

    The keyword here is Microcenter. This is not a spontaneous gathering of people on their own initiative, but a special launch event organized by Microcenter. The network holds quite a few events like this because it is one way to deal with Amazon: creating a community atmosphere that in turn increases loyalty. But this is a topic for separate discussion.

    At least I didn't see pictures of queues on other networks and the queues that lined up outside the store were pretty short. Certainly not Apple's blocked streets and tents. Overall, hardware enthusiasts who were hoping to get a good price on Microcenter on a new platform.

    I think a processor has become a fashion item 7 status icon. Most people do not even know what a processor is, since AMD exists.

    My experience of upgrading, although naturally a small sample size, is the opposite. Most laymen in the field are in no hurry to upgrade. Those who frequently upgrade are usually hardware enthusiasts. There are of course also those who run after everything new. Can't stand the thought of a new model coming out and they don't have it. I am also not a follower of this behavior and take an upgrade approach when needed, but the definition of need is subjective as well.

    There is someone for whom there is a synonym for desire. I don't see it as a problem, even if this way of thinking is a little strange to me personally. People upgrade and do things in life differently in general. Everyone has other priorities and that does not necessarily indicate irrational behavior. There are those who are concerned about raw products. Investigate, try… It's not irrational behavior even though I don't even have time to think in the direction (but in my youth, I pretty much liked it).

    If we reduce everything to a binary consideration of life and death, which means doing something only when the alternative is that no other personal and / or professional quality of life can exist, the world will be depressing. Besides, those early adopters help push the technology forward by debugging and polishing, motivating the second hand economy and contributing to continued development is not a thing.

  117. Quote of the captaincaveman

    You refuse to have the pleasure of purchasing something new.

    From your stuff you can understand that there is no performance difference between a pre-8 processor and a modern processor (with more cores, more threads and more IPC)

    The one that you think is 2500K enough, it's cute. But that doesn't really stand the test of reality. People want to maximize Performence Games, and two years ago 2500K was a bottleneck for cards like GTX1080.

    I'm already guessing what to say now "You can't pay attention to the difference between 60 and 100 FPS and if you want more FPS just lower the quality to MEDIUM / LOW"

    I know it's hard for you to accept, but for some people it's not enough and takes them away from the fun.

    Thank you for your consideration 👍

    Quote of nec_000

    Thank you for your consideration 👍ספורט With an 600 hp engine capable of 350 mph, which is probably strong and fast the size of a regular car with only 150 hp and speed

    Final 190 mph.

    However, for the purposes of normative public road driving, the excess power is not reflected when the typical public road speed is moving anyway

    Around 100-120 only Kamsh.

    That is to say, the excess capacity of a new 8 processor cores compared to a few years ago 4 cores does not necessarily come to terms with the normative use of a computer.

    Or in other words, the number of cases or opportunities, or more accurately the number of customers who will be able to take advantage of the octagonal processor's excess power,

    It is very small relative to the market as a whole.

    As for FPS, I kind of disagree with the numbers, for the reason that I'm on 2500K as I know, and not stuck on 60FPS but rather between 100-200,

    At least in all the titles I've checked, including ones from 2017. And I'm an average typical consumer so represents not bad.

    Of course, I do not rule out that some recent super titles may be heavier, but these are not necessarily the example that represents the rule.

    If we take the vast majority of titles, to the best of my memory, 2500K has no problem staying in 100FPS (and above)

    Again - because I have one (in truth, even two) and know from personal experience.

    Of course if this is a consumer for whom the title is modern and heavy, as well as for which it turns out that the 4 cores processor does not give over 60FPS (when octagonal

    Modern can 100), and in addition the same user is important for this plug-in (because it has an 144hz screen), so we agree that the upgrade will be useful / worthwhile / justified

    Practically rational.

    The only question again - how many percent of the total consumer market we describe represents:

    Also a modern game, one of the heavy ones, also a 144hz screen and the like….

    A very small cutting group relative to the market.

    Therefore, in my estimation and understanding, it represents the fairly small percentage of consumers, and not the main mass of them. And that's the main argument here.

    Kerry, the same isotope-nosy consumer who needs the upper limb of Performence, Is a "too small quantity" consumer to justify the extent of the observed demand.

    I can't build a big enough pile of shoppers, just on the basis of too small a mix of consumers who meet a need that is rational.

    And so to explain the fairly large shopping basket, I have to fill the basket with enough more customers.

    The explanation of the large part of which, as far as I am concerned, is not from the rational field - as much as one understands the field or analyzes things wisely.

    I have no problem agreeing where, most of the basket is made up of "pleasure" consumers - just by stocking something new (even if it doesn't have a practical need).

    And this is the same phenomenon of Connie iPhone New every generation year after year.

    Let's not forget that Israel is a tiny drop in the sea ... I think there are many who did not upgrade and were waiting for a specific Reisen because he brought with him PCI 4 Expect besides some other things on board and in the world there are full streamers just waiting for something to help stream live and ask for more 1001 colors

    Today the world agrees materially than ever before ... It is known that there are many who buy without addressing their needs at all and just run the newest and strongest etc

    But again, even with this knowledge… the most colorful arc like building a computer that is not a brand ;)

  118. about blank,

    In addition to the things you described about MicroCenter and the celebration they held,

    I remind all of us that there is a complete problem to say - that a gap between supply and demand has existed since the previous month's launch worldwide. This is not my point.

    And this is not a low volume production issue or anything like that on the part of TSMC, on the contrary, it's the most condensed investment AMD has made

    In every Risen series. Knowing that at launch, they will have a short window of time to enjoy a long-lasting relative advantage,

    Because Antel will respond quite quickly and close this window.

    And despite being organized on a respectable stock mass and still these days a production of strong volumes, there is difficulty buying processors

    The 3000 series has queues of a few weeks or more for each processor model. It's not just the scale of an event at the MacCenter,

    Rather, it has been storming online sites like Amazon and its like. There are numbers already in quite a few places, see mine factory from Germany that publishes data

    Scissors. There you can see illogical sales numbers compared to previous launches and Intel launches as well.

    I still insist that this is an unreasonable demand (in numbers), which is beyond what was likely to happen compared to past launches.

    This is a question facing me, how it happened. There is no rational explanation (as far as I can tell) of such numbers. And no, Risen 3000 is not a "super man" that justifies them.

    With all due respect to him and what he brings to the arena - a great processor and a great price.

    It's not Superman, it's not a processor that gives 2 IPC or 2 frequency than what it has on the market.

  119. Quote of the captaincaveman

    A claim that is backed up with zero information. And because of that, all the rest of the argument is extremely shaky and does not hold water. Hypotheses, guesses and cognitive bias

    nec_000 - Please note that you are consistent….

    Data - Yuk. Hypotheses based on the yuk - plentiful.

  120. No data ?

    Get fresh from 4 days ago (2.8.2019) :

    https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-is-such-a-hit-it-almost-outsold-intels-entire-cpu-range

    image.png.87de7426688867d78a67ead4a369e5a3.png

    Thanks.

    But it just reinforces the opposite of what you say.

    Here, from the article -

    Of course, we need to highlight the usual caveats: this is just a single set of figures from one online retailer, and as such hardly representative of the overall CPU industry. Indeed, this represents a focus on PC enthusiast and consumer sales - which is still very telling - although Intel shifts plenty of chips elsewhere in the likes of the business and laptop market.

    And in other places, there is a respectable rise in the market.

    Not an unprecedented attack and other things you said,

    And surely not lovers who do not understand their life (in the free translation of your words).

    What to do, those "lovers" patiently waited for the picture to clear

    And they went for a good processor and also cheaper than what Intel has to offer.

    Their right.

    Maybe your words are short, but what?

    How to have fun too אתה Will you set them up? : nixweiss:

  121. There is a lot more data from Mr. Askme (sorry Napoleon) joining this statistic. ** We will leave you to complete the material, which will also sweat a little,

    I've already done enough for the friends according to the information.

    And if you have the penchant for the next quarter results for AMD's 2019 (in investor presentation) so-called Investor Relations,

    You will be able to close the circle and understand how much has been on the processors, as there have been solid 3 numbers for the past quarter.

    I didn't just guess or imagine like you did or speculated from the air.

    But I have watched the matter with care and hobby in the capital market, this is one of the things that they go through to gain knowledge

    And channel my investments wisely (in order to reap optimal returns and you are already a knowledgeable and knowledgeable investor in the capital market).

  122. Sales breakdown and market share are different metrics.

    Even if the distribution of sales is currently in the ratio of 80% / 20% in favor of AMD, it is not known what the impact on market share.

    Market share varies when Intel processor is replaced by AMD (or vice versa) rather than AMD with AMD. There could also be a situation that the AMD processor has bought on this side of Intel. It still has an impact on market share, but to a lesser extent.

    As soon as AMD crosses the 35% market share in the OEM market and the 15% server level, there will be room to talk about moving in tectonic dimensions that should start to worry Intel. Only a year or so we will know, approximately (because depending on the preparation of the report, how this all affected the market share. It is pretty clear that AMD will bite into Intel's market share (also because of Intel's supply problems). Not much.

    It is impossible to disregard the detail of the hardware enthusiast market.

  123. This is certainly true. We are currently talking about home market bumps. In the server market, 2018 year ended with a market share of only 3.2% for AMD.

    We are currently waiting for the 1 quarter data for the current year to see if they have managed to pass the 5% threshold that they may be able to inform.

    The Big Market shoots down the server market, so it has the biggest weight.

    On a global level, both servers and mobile are capable, as Intel is still much larger. It lost its position only in the home PC market

    Or the so-called enthusiast market.

  124. Quote of nec_000

    There is a lot more data from Mr. Askme (sorry Napoleon) joining this statistic. ** We will leave you to complete the material, which will also sweat a little,

    I've already done enough for the friends according to the information.

    And if you have the penchant for the next quarter results for 2019's release I HAVE D (In investor presentation) So-called investor relations,

    You will be able to close the circle and understand how much has been on the processors, as there have been solid 3 numbers for the past quarter.

    I didn't just guess or imagine like you did or speculated from the air.

    But I have watched the matter with care and hobby in the capital market, this is one of the things that they go through to gain knowledge

    And channel my investments wisely (in order to reap optimal returns and you are already a knowledgeable and knowledgeable investor in the capital market).

    And about this, the Sages said, "What about a bed at Mount Sinai?"

    And where's Intel's crushing blow to your scholarly reasoning?

    You, Mr. nec_000, are firing in all directions in the desperate hope that something is right.

    Instead of serving the public, you claim, you are only confusing the public

    In contradictory statements every Monday and Thursday.

    So don't know how much and why you're sweating,

    But we, the layman, have no idea what you are saying in the end

    Or want to say. Please help with this.

    A heartfelt thanks for the will and responsiveness.

  125. You're a troll looking to just throw fights. You just probably forgot the writer's age and the average readership,

    You've probably missed out on your natural grandmother.

  126. Quote of nec_000

    You're a troll looking to just throw fights. You just probably forgot the writer's age and the average readership,

    You've probably missed out on your natural surroundings.

    Either you write to the body of interest and discussion and not the body of a writer, or (with the help of the landlord) closes the joiner in 5 minutes.

    He has already done it 3 times for the past two years and his hand will not have trouble doing it again if need be

    Because you have a tendency to get annoyed at other members and write to the member's body rather than the topic in question.

    Good.

    Why fight?

    The topic of discussion is the processor performance in the title, isn't it?

    Neither market shares nor stock market investments.

    So let's come back All of us To the subject.

  127. Have you seen Intel's desperate attempt to make a noise before ROME's debut tomorrow? They promise that "Copper Lake" will have 56 cores and will support a new Socket (as opposed to BGA Soup in 9200) and the Socket will also fit into the next generation era, eh and they promise the TDP will be lower than the ridiculous 400W to 9200 data.

    It is sad that a failed management expresses such a large and progressive company to such a situation that all they have to offer is SPAM of presentations "Wait Wait We Have An Amazing Product Coming Soon!".

  128. thehwgeek - As usual and as always, thanks for following this interesting information 👍

  129. Here's a very interesting article (right now July 31) on the server market, about the findings we mentioned earlier about the end of 2018 (last quarter)

    AMD's market share on servers was 3.2%, and what is going to do rome - including the leak / rumor that Google has closed a huge deal with AMD for absorption

    New rome series servers. This means (assuming the rumor is true) for AMD and its segment in the segment is huge:

    https://articles2.marketrealist.com/2019/07/rumor-google-may-use-amds-epyc-server-chips/

  130. Quote of nec_000

    And still, shoppers are not educated in the field of computing, and are running for a percentage of crumbs to upgrade a computer.

    They are the ones who bought 2600K after 3770K. And after a year, 4790K, and after a year 6770K and then and there….

    You and I know that they are "scientific scientifically important" who make a purchase without understanding what they are doing.

    I didn't really understand how sales data proves your claim I cited again.

  131. Quote of nec_000

    The numbers are total amount Processors Marble in the market (delivered). In fact, you can see that 9900K sales were pretty much stopped, once 3700x sales started.

    The Risen 3700x processor market share is 63%,

    When completing it 9900k is 27%.

    ** I still remember the snapshot two years ago - Risen 1700 vs 7700k,

    This was around 23 percent (rough order of magnitude 1700) versus about 77% for Intel 7700k.

    In addition, it is a bit strange to compare 500 $ processor to 330 $ processor.

    Is this the case even when comparing 3900X to 9900K?

  132. The graph on the left, in percent, shows the amount of the same specific processor model, out of the 100% of all processors.

    In other words, the Risen 3700x market share is currently 2.67% of the total processor, the 9900k model is 1.56% of the total.

  133. Quote of the captaincaveman

    In addition, it is a bit strange to compare 500 $ processor to 330 $ processor.

    Is this the case even when comparing 3900X to 9900K?

    I did an edit and added 3900x as well, scroll up look.

  134. Quote of nec_000

    Consumers are probably not buying the price of another 100mhz for another 20% price.

    Who needs and knows what they need, buys 3800X.

    The rest, at least, buy what suits them.

    Interesting, if so, where did 1200 so recommend it for a record of price / value?

  135. The Risen 1200 relative to which other processor would you like to compare it in terms of market share?

    Say and put in the engine

  136. If possible, some of 1200 has been sold since the 3 series was announced.

    That is, did the people actually see what you saw and what you did

    Forum creator, a processor that is recommended as a cost / benefit inventor.

    Thanks.

  137. Ok,

    I found the link to the latest graph from yesterday 5.8,

    Published in Mindfactory Germany. It has an up-to-date segment of the July sales rule summary, some sold from each processor model,

    And compared to past months to see the trend line:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/296169-amds-ryzen-3000-family-is-dominating-sales-at-european-retailer

    8fs34lE.png

    You are again confusing sales distribution with market share.

    The total number of units sold has risen because AMD is now selling alongside Intel. Sales are not a zero-sum game. Selling one unit of X does not necessarily come at the expense of Y.

    If you pay attention to the graphs in France, Intel's sales volume remains stable despite its lack of inventory (which probably contributes to AMD) and despite cold rational cost considerations, with the exception of special cases (almost individual cases), there is no reason for Intel today to opt for Reisen 3000.

    None of this is surprising. AMD has had a successful launch and has a winning product right at the present time. But defining it as an onslaught that we didn't see as a bit of an exaggeration in my opinion. There is always a shortage of inventory in the first quarter, probably after minimization, because the manufacturing process is still not pure enough and the quality silicon is first and foremost dedicated to the enterprise market.

    I don't know how many units AMD manufactured, but that's probably not the amount that should have been enough until the dawn of the Reisen 4000 generation. Intel does not produce huge quantities at first either. Birth ropes.

    The hardware enthusiast market is behaving just as expected in response to the successful launch of a successful platform. Intel will lose some market share as it prepares a response that will change the market again. I'm not trying to predict, but I personally have a hard time believing that within a year (during which the 10nm answer is expected) AMD will succeed in undermining Intel's hold on the market.

    You don't have to rush around and get crowns or carry obituaries. It is important that you maintain long-term shoots and not periodically that one manufacturer's hands be clearly on the top while the other is lagging behind.

  138. If you look quantitatively or percentively, I do not recall that launching a new cpu produced such numbers.

    Try to find historical materials to confirm or disprove my memory.

    Therefore, because of the numbers / percentages but without rational justification (to my taste or my opinion) for such quantities on launch day, I find it difficult to understand them. Therefore, (or appreciate?) It is assumed that a big hip bear that has over-reacted to the product. Like breaking too hard to the right of the wheel. Maybe I'm wrong in analyzing the factors, but I feel that is how it is.

    I've been here for years and remember the area relatively badly from the 80 years. My first private computer is

    From the year 1980.

  139. Look, punk.

    You put yourself in the comments,

    Like stock market investments and what was the first computer

    And education and work more and more as a reinforcement to the claims

    And / or your conclusions.

    After that, coming to contradict your conclusions,

    You complain that you are coming out against you.

    And for that matter, the micro (the same German company) does not testify

    On the macro and if we sift your memory and interpretation from the posts,

    Left with a conclusion not like your shout.

    And you still haven't answered about your car's determination

    Intel will hit back, and you smoothed that out, too

    Despite your determination, Reisen 1200 is a dead horse.

    And this is just a sample of the gap between what is front / recommendation and reality.

  140. In your shoes, I would not rush to bring us the history (and put it in my mouth - as if it was done and said as you present it),

    This is without having to look up the sources (which are written on the site here), and show us.

    Your memory is not like it used to be. Gently hints.

  141. Quote of nec_000

    In your shoes, I would not rush to bring us the history (and put it in my mouth - as if it was done and said as you present it),

    This is without having to look up the sources (which are written on the site here), and show us.

    Your memory is not like it used to be. Gently hints.

    Well, a world as is customary.

    Of course you do.

    Again a personal altercation instead of questioning the essence of things.

    Very gently implying… ..

    : kopfpatsch:

  142. You haven't said one word so far in the last two days, in this thread, when it comes to trying to explain the phenomenon to us

    The usual gender cities for Rizan 3000. Scroll down and look for what you recorded, get a look.

    All your words are exclusively on the nec forum member:

    Analyze character, style, personality, what he said in the past, and put words in his mouth. Understand ?

    Or do you have to do a copy job and concentrate on you neatly?

    Next, you will deal with the consequences.

  143. giliep - thanks,

    That's what I'm glad to see. Attempt to validate an explanation that will put an end to the likelihood of product demand.

  144. In my opinion there are more 144HZ users than you think. And it's probably from the exit of the CS: GO game that demand has risen, hasn't it?

    And of course the launch of Reisen 3000 was excellent. Reisen 3600 is faster than Reisen 2600X. Unlike the jump from 1000 series to 2000. Improving the IPC will significantly increase customer satisfaction. In addition to the amazing pay-off.

    Indeed, it is a little difficult to explain the value of Reisen 3700X's purchases on his face ... No explanation is reasonable.

    It may be something psychological, for example, say I have a processor faster than i7 9700K.

  145. Undoubtedly, it is well known to everyone that a consumer motif and drive (in the world of human consumerism) is often driven by many varied reasons,

    Quite a few of which are purely psycho-technical, like all the examples we have some friends up in the thread:

    Throw things at the table like showing off in the "I have the newest or the biggest" living room calls, for example, to throw a psychologist

    We have the last word on the market, for example, to throw a better tongue at night knowing - that better than what we bought there is no market

    We are on the horse and on the summit as they say (even if it is one inch higher than yesterday's summit),

    And countless other reasons from this table, such as the thought that FPS is particularly important and that we play 720P to exhaust

    It to the end (I had to :))…

    No need to look under the rug for why, each of us knows this about himself, or the neighbor, or the friend in the workplace,

    Or about the woman (especially the woman) who is endlessly buying her 151 shoe pair even though she has another 150 in her closet

    She has hardly been able to reach them ever since she purchased them.

    Essential human consumerism is not rational, and it does not necessarily preclude a justified practical need that is calculated numerically.

    And we are not renewing anything here to anyone. This is the phenomenon of the modern world for better or worse.

    But as a contrast, if we try to give a rationale to the concepts of the professional / business world, we will not be able to produce such a strong rationale,

    To the extent that it justifies ** doubling the amount of processor sales **, only in the transition from June to July.

    Let's say that the proprietary (for example) aeronautical engineers who purchase a new sample jet engine for the fleet of aircraft they trust.

    We would not see them decide to replace the entire fleet of passengers with one blow, just because they still got the same engine last year,

    But at a discount of 40% (especially when it's not a temporary discount - but now the new fixed price for the engine).

    They would do thorough headquarters work, recalculate the periodic equilibrium, and produce an updated graph of which month to buy

    What and how much. If you were preparing a long-term equipping plan that spans a long time, the calculation was economic and business engineering.

    To Mehadrin exclusively rational consideration.

    They might have decided on the formulas at all, not to increase or promote purchases from anything other than to stick to the original feature from time to time,

    Because the price discount still doesn't bother the engine replacement speeds. And they might decide to make purchases at some level,

    Because it has benefits from somewhere else - say maintenance cost or priority fuel consumption that would justify the purchase now.

    A private home consumer, for the most part, doesn't work that way. He doesn't have this consideration before his eyes, he doesn't usually know how to do it anyway, and the truth is, above all,

    Nor does he care. You can definitely understand. Nor am I always strict enough to do so in all my personal and family considerations,

    Admits that a vertical sinner.

    Although as hard as it can be applied, do it in all places / sections at least where I have the power to do so,

    Or the knowledge needed to execute it.

    In budget sections that are of great significance in our lives such as buying a car, I do the job professionally.

    With Axel and everything (no kidding). ** Can move the tools and share knowledge with anyone who is interesting.

    But when it comes to buying a T-shirt from the hangar in NIS 50, it doesn't interest me. The sums are too small to be thought of.

    Is purchasing a processor in the 300 $ dialing area, which indirectly results in - upgrading an entire computer in the 1000 $ dialing area,

    Is a decision that falls as important as a vehicle in its weight? Or at a NIS 50 shirt level in terms of its weight?

    She falls where he is in the middle. It is on the one hand expensive enough for us to treat it with sufficient thought (a few good minutes),

    And on the other hand, it's not as acute as deciding on a new car for NIS X,000 (as I just purchased now - say good luck) until we make it

    Orderly business plan with economic excel.

    If facts can't be argued, numbers paint such a poignant picture, ours is no way to argue with it and it is:

    That processors have multiplied 2 by a quantity in just one month.

    It has a direct connection to the launch of the 3000 series and not to the star status in the sky. The reasons are based on everything together:

    Reasonably little to anyone who needs the new performance at the updated price, to many very psychotechnical grandparents, some of which are quite a bit

    Fueled nicely by high-quality marketing and PR work done in the first half of 2019, while developing expectations and building

    Tension ahead of launch. Whatever percentage alone cause in the end result, we will never know - certainly not the tools at our disposal.

  146. Well, I'll say it in the most dry conditions there is -

    There is nothing unusual about the port

    Raisen's Three Series.

    All the explanations and theories stated here are correct

    And not equally true in general,

    And more wrong if you delve into the facts.

    What's more, there is no mention here in the last two pages

    Impact on performance or justification conclusions or vice versa

    Buy these processors (Generation 3) or not.

    Ostrich, a three-page topic with no benefit to anyone

    Who is looking for an answer as to whether he should buy one processor or another

    or not.

  147. The difference between expensive and faster memory performance in games seems to be affected not only by the speed of memory and the type of card you have. Those waiting:

  148. So if I understood correctly, there is no point in going crazy with precious memories

    That is, say above 3200 from the IDF.

    Well, that's what Lior said in the tests he showed ...

  149. All the hype and excitement about the 3 series is accompanied by a kind of joy over Intel that has stuck around for a few years.

    Naturally, there is a tendency to embrace the underdog that has managed to straighten a line and beyond in front of the big blue.
    All of these emotions are a bit out of control and people are looking to empower them or forcefully dig up examples of how much better the situation is for AMD, which in turn rotates further into Intel. Because this is a decision that a significant part of it is emotional (and that is all about it), there is motivation to try and convince others, and thus to reinforce the decision to purchase and support AMD, which is again successful on the big field. All of this leads to a lot of "taste and smell" debates that really make no difference to these debates, so enjoy the very debate itself. :)

    And so, after all the dust settles, the light and ringing will calm down, we will probably return to the same situation perhaps with some improvement in AMD's condition but certainly not close to some Intel tragedy. Total beer returned to a non-monopoly state in the market, Intel will continue to make clean money or a year (or maybe even a quarter) in the amount closer to the value of each AMD.

    Beyond that, in my opinion, putting AMD's achievement into the consideration system is as if in itself something that has value or factor in deciding what to buy - well, in my opinion, it's a mistake. It does not benefit anyone who purchases because it can certainly make him or her an ideal purchase for him, a purchase that has a job discount that does not take place the way you perceive it.
    Certainly there may be a consumer that just by supporting the underdog or "getting revenge" on Intel by going beyond the competitor - that in itself constitutes part of the purchase. Again, in my opinion this is a mistake but As long as that person understands that is what motivates them (A desire for revenge or brand support for a global capitalist company that only works for its investors and who is not your own company and you will not) So disrupt them. Beyond raising awareness there is really nothing to do, everyone is mature.

    On the contrary, and with anyone who has been with the same trinity for almost a decade (i5-2400 is very modest) and is already thinking about upgrading - what I saw from AMD is still not enough to be an automatic choice over Intel. In general, if I had to choose an AMD processor it would probably have been 2700X which at the current price simply has no competitors in the 8 / 16 cores category. Total alignment + a fair bit of advantage and a good price, but it's not that Intel has, on the shelf now, what to offer against. There's no new 2400 / 2600K here. It's still not that.
    The main point is that if you look a little forward beyond the excitement of the past month then Intel has a large arsenal of different means to cope with the competition that AMD sets. What's more, the equation also has a very important element that was missing - Intel has the motivation to re-impress after losing its performance and viability in the highest segment. Also refining and improving the current Reisen 3 will come in parallel with the 10 series for the PC.
    All of this goes for an average of one purchase per year for 10 - now is not the ideal time to make a decision, mainly because Intel is stuck for so long but not without reason. I think it's best to wait for Intel to showcase what it has been cooking for 3 years and when the dish is served, due to renewed motivation, there is a good situation that there will be generous bonuses to come with it (releasing a multiplication and / or HT in all models, attractive price, eliminating unnecessary large core graphics, Thanks to 10NM and other things they have eliminated over time called the market segmentation).

    And beyond all friends - discussion culture. It's actually the only thing that matters here. Otherwise, when things get off the track to personal as too much happens with some friends, it's no longer fun and disconnected.
    So, Rebek, #Excited_Excited, take your words in your hands and remember that you can also just ignore the one who is marginalizing the discussion.

  150. Quote of omertgm

    So, Rebek, #Excited_Excited, take your words in your hands and remember that you can also just ignore the one who is marginalizing the discussion.

    I am in favor.

    And now, let's go back to the technical stuff.

    What works well for who and why.

    Like the two posts before that of Omar…. :).

    Because…..

    There are so many variables and variations in the fate of each of us what and when to buy,

    Let it be a waste of time and a place to disperse into a sales and revenge situation and other aspects

    Which are not purely technical.

    Therefore, I advise all of us to limit ourselves to the "dry" technical things.

    A processor type has such performance in such a converter

    And in contrast, processor B is better performing but costs more

    Or any combination of the above kind.

    So, anyone can decide what is right for them and when, if ever.

    And if it wants, look at the processor manufacturer's stock value or

    What is served to workers in the restaurant on Wednesdays or not know what.

    It is his right to put every parameter into his decision making.

    We will provide what we have come to provide - CPU performance net !

  151. Crazy what it was yesterday, they just wiped the run with Intel's 8280M processors, it's even really embarrassing to see the reviews.

    Plus the price Intel wants on the 8280 to get support for 2T memory in 8280M - the 64 processor of AMD cores can be bought!

    Notice that even the single-core ciphers are active per CCX, they manage to sell as 8 cores with 128MB Cash that use 4 ciphers !.

    They can simply sell the processors at a joke price compared to Intel's price list and still make lots of cash per chip.

    PS: Notice that Google was the first to put them to use and they are actually taking advantage of the PCIE GEN4 for their COMPUTE cards, in short, they have freed themselves from Intel's chains that have restricted their development with ancient Skylike processors.

  152. Relax, in the friendliest section… .. : )

    Mitter, after years of stagnation I've been enjoying the last two years and what it was yesterday was finally a makeover, and it was not just a launch with just the brass performed by AMD but over the official 80 world records that DEL / HP & Co. themselves performed, shouldn't be a genius To believe that 64 cores with IPC are better than the competitor's better than 28 cores.

    There was a makeover and now we will wait when Intel answers, because at least what Intel released this week then even in the middle of 2020 they may be competing in 7742 in efforts for 2P with the 56 cores processors but also they will not really be a competition that will consume nearly 2 more than XN today.

    So until Intel 7nm from Intel Crown the performance and efficiency will be in the hands of AMD.

  153. We, me and you talk about different things.

    You might read what I wrote again.

    I didn't say Intel was still better in the processor,

    Only that all those who appeared in the proclamation, their honor

    In their place is a term.

    Intel might not just be hitting a bang on the wing, either

    Got into serious air turbulence (much to her own fault),

    But if you continue the parable, the plane is still in the air and continues to its destination.

    So, again, celebrate as much as you want,

    Just wait for conclusions about the future.

  154. AMD will continue to hold strong in the performance crown and will not leave. This is her period.

    Lisa will continue to push AMD, they currently have a year's advantage if not more.

  155. I am happy for AMD, but also do not forget that the minds in the country are already cooking something interesting, we are in Israel after all :-).

  156. Quote of TheHwGeek

    I'm happy for the path I HAVE D But also don't forget that the minds in the country are already cooking something interesting, we are in Israel after all :-).

    I really wish.

    I would also hope in a reverse case,

    Because we have seen what absolute control does

    To both the market and the controlling company.

    Or, to put it bluntly - good doesn't come of it.

    And between us, beyond his ambition to AMD for achievement

    The sincere technical and best wishes,

    What do we, the home consumer all the server interest belongs to?

    Not in the excerpt of what is being discussed here, but it is not

    The hardware that interests or affects us.

    It's not that if server control is switched to AMD

    We will get TR3 in divorce, or 3900 for two hundred shekels.

    And for that matter, I'm ready to be wrong…. : )

    It's good for us because it means more money for the GPU that competes successfully in NV and also bigger development budgets for ZEN4 / 5, in short we have to be glad that the spawning sector succeeds for AMD to have money for the toys we want - as if Google Twitter & Co. is funding the toy developments for the home market: -).

  157. Quote of TheHwGeek

    PS apologizes for the OT, though there is still a connection

    Lol

    We've already been much worse off topic : )

    In my opinion already at 07 / 11 we will see the competitor of 2080 and at CES look at the competitor in 2080Ti

    07 / 10 07 / 11 Suspicious dates for the launch of new 7 siege sieges, and completely coincidentally, CES 2020 takes place on the week of January.

  158. Come on, good night! : )

    Dramatic summary:

    Anyone who watched the presentation yesterday and understands the industry and economy of the server work segment, I happen to be one of these (also because of the experience in the workplace),

    Understand that,

    The power-to-unit cost ratio stands at a rough average of 2 times the AMD, and in the upper lows up to 4 (CPU cost alone).

    Also understand that the TCO ratio is in the dial area of ​​2 (up to 2.5) was a slide that shows a calculated example. In the virtualization world, it's a knockout.

    There is no competition for two products that are struggling to win tenders, with competition tight and difficult for the buyer to decide.

    The gap is unbridgeable.

    At the moment, the only reason a customer is still buying a xeon-based platform is because of the inertia, getting used to Intel from the past,

    The experience and credibility he fears for them. that's it.

    Although reliability is not relevant to the CPU itself but to the server, and that is dictated by HP or Dell, not Intel or AMD.

    In light of the fact that contracts have been concluded for supplying epyc generation 2 with the three factors considered, including Gogol, Microsoft and Twitter

    (And there is another - can't bring everyone to the stage), it was firmly understood that Intel's fate was not slightly damaged, but crashed to the floor.

    Once the three giants (for example) brought in, the new servers began to migrate to the epyc platform. It's over - wages have been breached.

    The question is not whether epyc will penetrate 10% per year in 2020 as analysts had estimated in the past year, before realizing what Rome is,

    The question is whether within two years they will not be able to take over even more than 50% market share. To the extent that.

    If Intel doesn't put out anything competitive in the near future (already this year), their sales ($ X billion billion a year)

    You will crash tens of percent down because AMD will take a huge chunk of them from the market. No single percentages here and there, epyc second generation is not

    A nice product to have, and is just one junior option against xeon…

    This second generation epyc is a knockout to Zeon, neither near nor near. It's a gap of a whole technological generation over.

    This is a gap in Part X2 (and sometimes higher) especially in TCO, which is the major deciding factor in the virtualization farm industry's large purchasing decisions.

    Based on TCO we buy servers in the cloud and this week we have just moved servers because of the price for another model.

    Half price? There is no deliberation whatsoever to purchase. This is not a gap that is being debated.

    So Intel will have to cut prices at a fast pace if it can sell and align with Rome's pricing,

    An element that would hurt their $ 1 billion revenue without any argument.

    Intel will have to start learning to tighten a belt and live with less revenue. Because whatever they sell, they will sell for less money, and for low saturation

    Significant of what they got used to. In short, Intel enjoyed and lived on borrowed time for the last two years of the first epyc, just because it was still

    New and the industry was careful not to buy it.

    Now after two years, the industry is no longer afraid. And with the technological gap that epyc second brings, it's over.

    As sad as it sounds to us Israel, but it is no small blow to the wing what happened here, it is a blow that if Intel does not reset itself quickly

    Can lead to terrible places in a very short time.

    A high-tech makeover like this can happen very quickly.

  159. Quote of nec_000

    Dramatic summary:

    Anyone who watched the presentation yesterday and understands the industry and economy of the server work segment, I happen to be one of these (also because of the experience in the workplace),

    :D ^^^^^

    You killed me with laughter ….. : xyxthumbs:

    Quote of nec_000

    Dramatic summary:

    Anyone who watched the presentation yesterday and understands the industry and economy of the server work segment, I happen to be one of these (also because of the experience in the workplace),

    Understand that,

    The power ratio per unit of cost stands to benefit I HAVE D A rough average of 2, and in the upper level down to 4 (CPU cost alone).

    Also understand that the TCO ratio is in the dial area of ​​2 (up to 2.5) was a slide that shows a calculated example. In the virtualization world, it's a knockout.

    There is no competition for two products that are struggling to win tenders, with competition tight and difficult for the buyer to decide.

    The gap is unbridgeable.

    At the moment, the only reason a customer still buys an established platform XeonIs because of inertia, getting used to Intel from the past,

    The experience and credibility he fears for them. that's it.

    Although reliability is not relevant to the CPU itself but to the server, and it dictates HP or Dell, not Intel or I HAVE D.

    In light of the fact that they showed that supply contracts were closed EPYC Generation 2 against the three factors considered, including Gogol, Microsoft and Tiveter

    (And there is another - can't bring everyone to the stage), it was decidedly obvious that the fate of Intel Not slightly injured, but crashed to the floor.

    Once the three giants (for example) brought in, they started moving the new servers to the platform EPYC. It's over - wages have been breached.

    The question is not whether EPYC Will penetrate 10% per year 2020 as analysts had estimated in the past year, before realizing what Rome is,

    The question is whether within two years they will not be able to take over even more than 50% market share. To the extent that.

    אם Intel Not spending anything competitive in the near future (already this year), their sales ($ 70 billion a year)

    Will go down by tens of percent because I HAVE D Take a huge chunk of them from the market. Not a few percent here and there, EPYC Second generation is not

    A nice product to have, and is just one junior front option Xeon...

    This second generation epyc is a knockout to Zeon, neither near nor near. It's a gap of a whole technological generation over.

    This is a gap in Part X2 (and sometimes higher) especially in TCO, which is the major deciding factor in the virtualization farm industry's large purchasing decisions.

    Based on TCO we buy servers in the cloud and this week we have just moved servers because of the price for another model.

    Half price? There is no deliberation whatsoever to purchase. This is not a gap that is being debated.

    so Intel You will have to drop prices at a fast pace to be able to sell and align with Rome's pricing,

    An element that would hurt their $ 1 billion revenue without any argument.

    Intel will have to start learning to tighten a belt and live with less revenue. Because whatever they sell, they will sell for less money, and for low saturation

    Significant of what they got used to. in short, Intel Enjoyed and lived on borrowed time for the last two years of the first epyc, only because it was still

    New and the industry was careful not to buy it.

    Now after two years, the industry is no longer afraid. And with the technological gap that epyc second brings, it's over.

    As sad as it sounds to us Israel, but it is no small blow to the wing what happened here, it is a blow that if Intel does not reset itself quickly

    Can lead to terrible places in a very short time.

    A high-tech makeover like this can happen very quickly.

    What is equally funny is the sequel, which is quoted here anyway,

    Prevent editing at source.

    Especially what's highlighted.

    Or is it really sad?

    Not closed yet, the truth.

  160. When you ever buy servers in one of the largest government organizations in the economy, you will understand what the epyc 2 is all about.

    The competition is actually over.

    If Intel didn't have veterans there, as well as if their branding status was the same or equivalent to AMD,

    In fact, no one was buying Intel at all (in the server world). Because Xeon has no strength. Not even a single little one

    Which remained in his favor.

    Intel has the luck, which still has a reputation and a reputation for it, that they will somehow still succeed and drive (to some buyers) to choose its products in this segment.

    But that alone will not last. AMD's reputation in the segment is starting to return fairly quickly and narrowing gaps.

    Here you see - Google and Macrospot started working against them.

    Don't know the status of Amazon which is the third arm, I'll try to find out.

    But if they do sweaty too, I wouldn't be surprised.

    In fact, much of the cloud industry and virtualization was introduced yesterday - as someone converting to Rome.

    An industry-leading event. Cloud and virtualization are largely responsible for the vast majority of server purchases. This is the most growing industry there is.

  161. Quote of nec_000

    אIntel did not have any veterans there, as well as which branding position was the same or equivalent to I HAVE D,

    In fact, no one would buy at all Intel Currently (in the server world). Because Xeon has no strength. Not even a single little one

    Which remained in his favor.

    agree. right.

    But that's it, there is.

    Intel has a name, seniority and market share.

    No doubt, right now, AMD has a winning horse.

    But this market is never measured for a moment,

    But much longer periods of time.

    You probably also know that product quality is not the only parameter

    In the totality of considerations, there have been and will never be.

    Then …. We'll wait. :)

  162. Intel versus AMD branding in the professional market doesn't interest anyone,

    The people who decide for the most part are industry professionals and know what AMD is.

    These are not private small computer proprietors like Dad who doesn't understand what a PC is, and buying his kid a computer then asks Intel because that's what he knows about branding.

    Intel's reputation has no real relevance to server purchasing decisions. Today, even the opposite, because Intel's architecture is exposed

    For some vulnerabilities (because it is an old architecture) that severely restricts servers of a certain type that are exposed, to the point of eliminating HT,

    What’s more is lowering their performance by 30%. I have had such a dilemma in some systems whether or not HT is safe, but

    We made some compensatory protections on the servers and left HT working. These servers are not really exposed so we could.

    Not the same on cloud virtualization servers that are open to the world. Google talked about it being a problem for them to stay with Intel.

    Look at the video we launched, you'll see Google's CTO or talking vmware.

    You will learn a lot from it. Intel's reputation has no meaning anymore, that's history.

    A shift in a technological world is capable of moving from one to another in a very short period of time. Change sometimes two years.

    As it used to be, there were times when AMD sold to servers a lot (in the previous decade, for example).

    It now returns for a second round.

    Intel can respond,

    Or launching a competitive new technology, which is the ideal of course.

    Or dramatically lowering the price of old technology (which it currently has) just to align a pricing line and try to compete,

    In the hope that it will continue to allow it to sell quantities in the market.

    But then we won't see another 70 billion sales a year, but much less. It can even fall in half like nothing.

    It's Intel's survivorship right now, not the home segment they ignored and could somehow live with.

    If they lose tens of percent of the ** dollar sales volume ** per year, because of what the competition brings them, it goes for them.

    The company will no longer be the same on leaving this event.

  163. Quote of nec_000

    Intel Branding in the Professional Market I HAVE D Doesn't interest anyone,

    The people who decide for the most part are industry professionals and know what it is I HAVE D.

    These are not small private computer proprietors like Dad who doesn't understand what a PC is, and buying his kid a computer then asks Intel Because that's what he knows about branding.

    To the reputation of Intel, There is no real relevance to server purchasing decisions. Today even the opposite, because the architecture of Intel Exposed

    For some vulnerabilities (because it is architecture Old) that severely restricts servers of a certain type that are exposed, to the point of eliminating HT,

    What’s more is lowering their performance by 30%. I have had such a dilemma in some systems whether or not HT is safe, but

    We made some compensatory protections on the servers and left HT working. These servers are not really exposed so we could.

    Not the same on cloud virtualization servers that are open to the world. Google talked about it being a problem for them to stay with Intel.

    Look at the video we launched, see the CTO of Google Or vmware talking.

    You will learn a lot from it. Intel's reputation has no meaning anymore, that's history.

    A shift in a technological world is capable of moving from one to another in a very short period of time. Change sometimes two years.

    As it used to be, and there were periods of S.E. I HAVE D Mine server lots (in the previous decade for example).

    It now returns for a second round.

    Intel can respond,

    Or launch Technology Competitive new, which is the ideal of course.

    Or dramatically lowering the price of old technology (which it currently has) just to align a pricing line and try to compete,

    In the hope that it will continue to allow it to sell quantities in the market.

    But then we won't see another 70 billion sales a year, but much less. It can even fall in half like nothing.

    It's Intel's survivorship right now, not the home segment they ignored and could somehow live with.

    If they lose tens of percent of the ** dollar sales volume ** per year, because of what the competition brings them, it goes for them.

    The company will no longer be the same on leaving this event.

    You know alone why I quoted.

    Apparently there is nowhere to go from that post….

    Too bad.

    What a pity, the majority you just wrote doesn't hold water,

    To borrow the phrase from the caveman….

  164. And I say again that you are a troll, who understands nothing professional and economic,

    Therefore, bargain yourself with reactions (towards me personally), not towards the subject (which is Intel and xeon).

    You analyze what it means to manufacturer, lower xeon prices by 50%,

    Just to be able to continue to sell in the current market and win procurement tenders, and how that affects its annual sales volume

    Which went down in one half stroke.

    It seems that even a thorough account of a micro-elemental economy, you do not understand.

  165. OK.

    Quote of nec_000

    I'm not deteriorating anywhere,

    The only one who degrades the "level" of the forum is you.

    I write business analysis on the meaning of EPYC 2, you respond to me and not to the content.

    You are a regular symmetric responder with the same worn sentences.

    I keep saying that you are a troll, who understands nothing professional-business-and-economic, Not only does it not work

    In the chip or hi-tech industry, you are nowhere near the field and an analyst who can speak

    As evidence, you are not referring to the content itself, so brace yourself with comments (towards me personally), not towards me Intel and- Xeon In terms of content.

    And maybe I see you more than once a week? :D

    And I do not respond personally to you but to your conclusions and your tenure.

    and…. Tell us, all of us, when your organization switches servers to AMD.

    By then, I am sure that the forum members and this discussion will know

    For themselves, who among us is inaccurate, if very gentle. :)

  166. You did not respond to my surgical procedure. Now for the facts:

    A - I did not create tenure. I am unable to determine. I'm about to analyze.

    You are the one who made the decision "Ask for tenure." Shows your understanding of the Hebrew language for its concepts and the difference between analysis and determination.

    B - Cancel my arthritis laconic arthritis surgery,

    You did not bother to explain and respond to your response for a moment, using rational numerical countermeasures from a nation.

    Understand ?

    be back:

    You are not in the Kidodes forum. You are in a forum where there are (also) writers in their fifth or sixth decade with a recorder in the field.

    If you continue to try to deal with retarded tools like you have done so far, you will find out very quickly where this is leading to the prestige of

    Your joiner in form and at home. You're just making yourself an idiot.

  167. Quote of napoleon45

    and…. Tell us, all of us, when your organization switches servers to - I HAVE D.

    Very simple.

    In my organization on much of the systems at the developmental level, I am responsible. And so, I decide on my signature which servers will buy.

    I've already talked to our relationship with HPE Israel and questions, when do they bring the new epyc 2 servers to Israel, or when

    Integration of simplicity systems into this platform, because in the next purchase I order these.

    He realized that in the next few weeks he should be informed and immediately forwarded to me. As for simplicity it may take a little longer because

    That they have not yet migrated to such a model (it's all new).

    So the answer to your question is that the government organization I am employed in will probably receive epyc 2 within the next six months or next year in a rough order of magnitude.

  168. Quote of nec_000

    You did not respond to my surgical procedure. Now for the facts:

    A - I did not create tenure. I am unable to determine. I'm about to analyze.

    You are the one who made the decision "Ask for tenure." Shows your understanding of the Hebrew language for its concepts and the difference between analysis and determination.

    B - Cancel my arthritis laconic arthritis surgery,

    You did not bother to explain and respond to your response for a moment, using rational numerical countermeasures from a nation.

    Where did you talk about numbers for example?

    Understand ?

    be back:

    You are not on the Kidodes Forums forum.

    You are in a forum where there are (also) writers in their fifth or sixth decade with a track record in the subject field.

    And if you continue to try to run behind them with retarded tools like you have done so far, you will find out very quickly where that is

    Leading the yosher prestige (your third who is already a writer) shamefully.

    I don't want to say that this is insulting, but you're just making yourself an idiot - not a tech intellectual.

    It is not worthy of response.

    For less than that, people get banners at best.

    Maybe someone in management will come together for a change.

  169. Quote of napoleon45

    Tell us, all of us, when your organization switches servers to - I HAVE D

    Quote of nec_000

    So the answer to your question is that the government organization I am employed in will probably absorb EPYC 2 within six months or the coming year a rough order of magnitude.

    We'll wait.

    I doubt, remind you, not only do you work in the organization… ..

  170. Quote of napoleon45

    It is not worthy of response.

    For less than that, people get banners at best.

    Maybe someone in management will come together for a change.

    Shows how much you live in your own reality. Regarding blockages - you have a good experience with it, don't you?

    Learn from him.

  171. Napoleon is not about what you do. It is not disrespectful to clash with members of this forum.

    Do not know and do not want to understand what you get out of it.

  172. Quote of Jabberwock

    Napoleon is not about what you do. It is not disrespectful to clash with members of this forum.

    Do not know and do not want to understand what you get out of it.

    To say whether what was said in the discussion is true or false -

    Do you think this is an altercation? : nixweiss:

    Are you coming to me? : kopfpatsch:

    What RTX Discussion Do You Want to Do?

  173. Napoleon,

    How is it that with all the experience you have accumulated so far, and you still have not learned from him, that it is time to stop, disconnect,

    Go rest for a while and come back fresh. Start a new page from another point tomorrow.

    And this is my advice to you now, stop your scuffling in front of me or in front of the jabber, and rest on Friday. You are currently bringing only negative and uninteresting enriches.

    Come back tomorrow with a positive energy on Saturday.

  174. Quote of nec_000

    So the answer to your question is,

    That the government organization I am employed in will probably absorb EPYC 2 within the next six months or this year in rough order.

    As well as I don't have to do a year's POC, because there are already some of the results of some of those made in global companies

    And the results crowned the product with a kosher certificate.

    It will be really interesting if you succeed in the task…

    Intel has political priority in the country, I think you're about to get into political mud.

  175. Quote of napoleon45

    Do you think this is an altercation?

    The body of interest, not the body of the claimant.

    "Tulip toothpick understands you two Tul is happening from your eyes."

    Quote of nec_000

    That the government organization I am employed in will probably absorb EPYC 2 within the next six months or this year in rough order.

    As well as I don't have to do a year's POC, because there are already some of the results of some of those made in global companies

    And the results crowned the product with a kosher certificate.

    That is, six months or more to decide on such a move?

    And what do the POC results include?

  176. Quote of Jabberwock

    "Tulip toothpick understands you two Tul is happening from your eyes."

    And that applies twice as much to you, if you already have….

  177. Quote of urib

    It will be really interesting if you succeed in the task…

    Intel has political priority in the country, I think you're about to get into political mud.

    There is no politics in the company I work for, and as far as I know the government bastard as a whole, in the choice of procurement.

    And if they are already reversed, there is a great deal of excessive and even exaggerated tendency for auctioning, which gives us the opportunity to purchase what we want

    But is often forced to stick to the cheapest (even if it is not the best or preferred).

    In order to work around all of these restrictions, justifiable measures, such as a NCO tender and the like,

    Or small purchase amounts (up to 20 per item) to purchase at a single quote.

  178. Quote of nec_000

    There is no politics in the company I work for, and as far as I know the government bastard as a whole, in the choice of procurement.

    And if they are already reversed, there is a great deal of excessive and even exaggerated tendency for auctioning, which gives us the opportunity to purchase what we want

    But is often forced to stick to the cheapest (even if it is not the best or preferred).

    In order to work around all of these restrictions, justifiable measures, such as a NCO tender and the like,

    Or small purchase amounts (up to 20 per item) to purchase at a single quote.

    What an art to say something and its opposite.

    There is no politics in the organization that is subject to the NIS….

    No more questions, Your Honor.

    On the other hand, nek, urib can really buy what comes / looks to him.

  179. Quote of Jabberwock

    The body of interest, not the body of the claimant.

    "Tulip toothpick understands you two Tul is happening from your eyes."

    That is, six months or more to decide on such a move?

    And what do the POC results include?

    Six months or more, I would even say aim for a year, not because the decision will take a long time, the decision we make

    Pretty fast when we want it to be fast.

    The problem is that I have not yet received a product catalog from HPE (I just talked to them yesterday on the phone). Nor is the product publicized at all

    In the NIS tender, which allows us to purchase it without embarking on a dedicated tender.

    That if the product is not in the NIS, a tender alone takes us six months to a year (from an exhausting and unfortunate experience - but that's how it is).

    Therefore, I expect that in the coming quarter we will also have the product in the HPE catalog, concurrent with its entry into the NIS tender.

    Which means that the quickest I make a purchase (in this case) is to say that I will only see a product for another six months.

    It is quite optimistic what I am writing here, from the barracks in the sector of the field, especially in our society is very slow.

    So say even up to a year until we see the actual product. It's a long time, but that's what it is.

  180. Quote of nec_000

    Parallel to its entry into the NIS tender

    Who said he would go into the NIS at all?

    Why? That you would recommend?

    What closes here with people? : kopfpatsch:

  181. You don't even seem to know what the concept of NCO is.

    You will begin to read material on the web about the topic, then come back and write about it.

  182. Quote of nec_000

    You don't even seem to know what the concept of NCO is.

    You will begin to read material on the web about the topic, then come back and write about it.

    LOL

    What a patronage ^^^^^

    What do you know, I've already forgotten.

    The one you have been engraving here for six months, then at the end of a year (oh, sorry, of course)

    And already you want to put servers in the NIS and you send me to learn what a NIS is….

    How pathetic can you already be?

    And I wouldn't bother at all to respond to this misery, but that's not the topic of the discussion

    And not the subject of the toffick in it.

    All of my comments here have come to illustrate how far it is for such significant changes

    Within the server market. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    Remember the 50 forecast percentage of nec_000? Do you still make sense?

    Think (but think) again.

  183. excellent,

    So now again explain to your friends what the NCO tender is, how to put products into it, and the science of claiming that you uploaded 2 posts first, which is:

    Quote of napoleon45

    Who said he would go into the NIS at all?

    Why? That you would recommend?

    What closes here with people? : kopfpatsch:

    She is nonsense.

  184. Quote of nec_000

    So now explain again to your friends what a NCO tender is,

    Whatever you say, right away! : kopfpatsch:

    The main thing to change a topic!

  185. An overview of toms hardware the epyc 2 is here:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-epyc-rome-7000-series-data-center-processor-zen-2-7nm,40108.html

    The following paragraph of the review is:

    image.png.c524c8b9a2eff6ae8658a119d06f1057.pnghttps://www.anandtech.com/show/14694/amd-rome-epyc-2nd-gen

    Quote from their ending paragraph:

    image.png.5a9d684f343c8170f7e7c4a456514b31.png

  186. Another Thred that it's time to lock in and beautiful one hour earlier.
    Long ago, the subject has been disrupted and disgusting to the environment. In my opinion.

  187. Quote of huber

    Which video card is best for your Reiz processor? The following comparison will answer you the question:

    Too bad you don't show results for 4K too ... like what are some people buying 2080TI for playing Canter Strike on 1080P… ..?

  188. Do not show that it is not interesting, the card becomes the bottleneck and you will see exactly the same result on all processors.

  189. As mentioned in the 4K bottleneck, it is no longer the processor (to a certain extent, of course). Plus I don't know many people who will buy RTX 2080TI and buy an I5 processor for example.

  190. Quote of lompy

    Do not show that it is not interesting, the card becomes the bottleneck and you will see exactly the same result on all processors.

    Exactly… and you need to raise awareness don't you think?

  191. Quote of huber

    As I mentioned above b 4k The bottleneck is no longer the processor (to a certain extent of course). Plus I don't know many people who will buy RTX 2080TI and buy an I5 processor for example.

    That's exactly it…. Leave I5 6 processor cores and bomb card and 4K screen… .that's what I'm talking about

  192. ea80 - Sorry but I didn't understand what you were trying to say.

    In any case, after showing us that memory can be taken at a reasonable and inexpensive frequency and improved performance only by properly adjusting the timing in the bios, the same channel also explains to us how to do just that.



  193. Quote of ea80

    Exactly… and you need to raise awareness don't you think?

    No, it's a YouTube that needs to get videos that won't bore its viewers.

    For anyone watching the channel it is pretty clear that it is pointless to perform such a test when comparing processors.

    In addition, he spends entire days testing, why spend just hours doing something that doesn't make sense.

    He refers to it at the opening of the video and explains that he decided to test 1080 and 1440 in different settings.

  194. Quote of lompy

    No, it's a YouTube that needs to get videos that won't bore its viewers.

    For those watching the channel it is pretty clear that there is no point in making such a test when comparing Processors.

    In addition, he spends entire days testing, why spend just hours doing something that doesn't make sense.

    He refers to it at the opening of the video and explains that he decided to test 1080 and 1440 in different settings.

    From my 1080P point of view this is Passa… it would have been better for 1440P and 4K to probably start this for another two years (I've always been premature)

  195. Yes, the state contract.

    If he listened to you he would spend 15 hours doing benches that show there is no difference in 4K.

    1080 Relational And more importantly, this is not a review on 2080TI.

    Besides 2080 TI there is also RX580 who saw very nicely how it performs the same in all 1080P processors

  196. For those who do not want to spend a huge amount on a motherboard and are interested in the X570 panel at a relatively reasonable price, here is a comparison of some of these boards at this price (about $ 200 in the sand):

  197. Maybe you should start a new topic (when applicable) instead of catching up on endless threading?

    Threading with over ten pages should be automatically locked to add comments.

    Otherwise they're just tiring.

    And if there is interesting and fresh material, then a new topic will be better.

  198. Intel is running out of current technology.

    To show some benches on home PC review sites that only they can do so,

    Here are a few games where, after exterminating the speed above 5 Gigahertz, their 9900k gives another 3, maybe 5% FPS, interesting underneath.

    Since the amount of CPU purchasers in the world they are from this group that the loaded is talking about is relatively small.

    Let us conclude that some of them are not idiots in the field, they understand that this is an incorrect demonstration, since what matters is FPS when the load is applied to the accelerator

    The graph, and then 3-5% advantage in case cases has no relevance at all.

    This means that they are not buying this scales, which only further reduces the group by at least 1% of the entire global market.

    Or, to put it simply, nothing in the square.

    The market is today is already 80% server domain, increasing to more than 80%, because servers are rapidly replacing and growing in volume

    Lateral at 20% per annum. Home PC not only not growing, but shrinking in recent years.

    So if Intel is trying to convince anyone with a tiny little advantage in such a limited area, already relevant to at least 1% of the total slice,

    It is a matter of holding on to sandalwood, in the desperate hope that they (sandals) are worth something.

    The market share in the home segment has already risen to 80% for AMD compared to only 20% for Intel, Intel, or what?

    In the server market, Intel holds a share only because the market is conservative and moves to another product slowly and carefully. That name takes a year or two. But wages have been breached

    After all the serious bodies have already done a year's POC with epyc and see, it works great with no problems. So they have no problem with purchasing

    From now on you should purchase epyc-based servers.

    How long will it take to market an Intel market that is currently 97% and AMD about 3%, to flip?

    I don't see a lot of contracts in 2020 ordering more Intel, which is probably not the scope they used to be.

    In my informed and cautious assessment, it is no problem to see 2020 end with a market share of 30% and even 50% for epyc.

    A professional consumer doesn't care much about it except for proof of capabilities / reliability and price. This epyc has already done, Google knows facebook knows,

    And just about every supercomputer planned for the coming year, it's all epyc (nothing Intel anymore).

    Intel is actually out of the picture completely.

    This latest holding is definitely 97% market share, yesterday's number. Completely yesterday.

    All cloud computing providers have finished POC on epyc and found it to be better. It's over friends.

    There is only one thing that will save Intel, and it is a near-future launch of a new and cultural generation.

    If she has it she is saved. If it doesn't, within 24 months from now, AMD may be the world's biggest chip company

    In the field of CPU.

    Currently Risen 2 has launched, is the best and highest quality CPU in the world and is the bench mark Intel has to deal with the problem

    Its and its called 14nm. That's what there is. And that's a problem.

  199. Quote of nec_000

    Intel has run out of current technology.

    Show some benches on review sites "for enthusiasts PC Home, "because only to them can it still appeal, there are some games in them

    Still after the extreme rush over 5 gigahertz in the system Cooling Water, their 9900k gives another 3, maybe 5% FPS,

    Interestingly, underneath.

    Which is interesting under the fact that it may be small but crucial:

    The amount of CPU purchasers in the world they are from this group, which the load speaks to, is very small.

    But on top of that, some of them are not an idiot in the field, but a serious enthusiast who sits and studies.

    The serious enthusiast understands that this is a wrong demo, as what matters is FPS when the load is applied to the graphics accelerator, not the processor.

    But since 3-5% has an advantage to claim (in extreme cases), there is no longer any relevance at all, because it does not reach the screen.

    This means they are not buying this scales, which only further reduces the group to less than 1% of the market

    The whole global. Or, to put it simply, nothing in the square.

    The market today is already 80% server domain, increasing to more than 80% of the total pie, because servers are being replaced

    Fast and growing in lateral volume - at 20% per annum. This is when you delimit PC My home is not only not growing, but at all

    Shrinking in recent years.

    So if Intel Trying to convince someone else of a mind, that she has a tiny Chrononchik in such a limited field that is already relevant at least

    From 1% of the total slice, it is equivalent to holding on to sand grains, in the desperate hope that they (the sand grains) are worth something.

    We note that the market share in the home segment has already risen to 80% for AMD's RIZEN compared to only 20% for Intel.

    Then Intel Clogged or what? How do they even raise the load up, as if they have a lead in something meaningful or essential.

    They make themselves ridiculous.

    now,

    In the server market Intel Holds a share only because the market is conservative and moves to another product slowly and carefully. That name takes a year or two.

    But wages were breached after all the serious bodies had already made a POC of a year with EPYC And see, he works great with no problems.

    So they have no problem buying from now on - to buy based servers EPYC.

    And how long will it take to analyze Intel's market share that is currently saying 97% and I HAVE D About 3%, roll over?

    I don't see a lot of rushing contracts running in 2020 and inviting more intels, and what it does - probably not in the scale they used to be.

    In my informed (and cautionary) estimation, it is also no problem to see 2020 end with 30% market share

    And even 50% for epyc. A professional consumer doesn't care much about it except for demonstrating capabilities / reliability Performence And price.

    Done this epyc already, Google Know, facebook know, farm cloud Masians know, and about every supercomputer venture

    Planned for the coming year, everything is epyc (nothing based) Intel More). Intel is actually out of the picture completely.

    This latest holding is definitely 97% market share, yesterday's number. No longer relevant in looking

    forward. All cloud computing providers have finished POC EPYC And found it better. It's over friends.

    There is only one thing that will save Intel, and it is the near-term launch of a new and competitive generation. It can also be used extensively

    But with new pricing from the ground up. If Intel has it, it is saved. If she doesn't have it, within 24 months from now, I HAVE D May

    (Not necessarily but may) be the world's largest CPU company in the field of CPU.

    Currently launched the 2 generation launched, is the best and highest quality CPU processor, and the benchmark Intel has to deal with

    Through her problem and call her 14nm. That's what's there, and this is a problem.

    Intel may have to swallow the hard blow and start working with foreign chip coins like TSMC or סמסונג, Theirs

    Lithography is more advanced than it has. You may only be able to compete with 7nm that I HAVE D Works with him.

    In the highlighted part, do you mean to analyze quarterly market or overall market share? Because that information doesn't sound very reliable to me ...

  200. Quote of nec_000

    We note that the market share in the home segment has already risen to 80% for AMD's RIZEN compared to only 20% for Intel.

    It is important to emphasize that these are sales of new processors, not including mobile devices or complex computer systems.

  201. Indeed as the caveman made it clear.

    At the same time, my reference to the 80 / 20 percent market share (in favor of Reisen) comes, In the context of Intel's argument - that they are still "first place in performance".

    After all, Intel meant that (only) to Gamig, to the gaming crowd, and to the 9900K.

    Intel really didn't mean mobile, and certainly not the institutional market that buys ninety-nine clerical computers just for the purpose of running an outlook.

    So in the context Intel intends, the market share is as excellent as 80 / 20 percent in favor of Risen.

    Intel's argument makes it clear to readers, who understand what happened here.

    It is similar to an athlete who says "in which one game from 5 is he still taking first place".

    Remind him that the final result in a battle is determined by the 5 all battles. Remind him that in the other 4 he lost.

    So he'd better talk less and cock less.

    That's what Intel has done here - bragging that in the last (and marginal) something it still has an edge.

    But at the same time, she forgot that in a market where the same gaming advantage (which she holds really desperate for), she actually lost the lead (totally) in favor of AMD.

    It is therefore clear that they allow themselves. Seen from the side as a child and not for their part.

  202. Quote by Boromir

    In the highlighted part, do you mean to analyze quarterly market or overall market share? Because that information doesn't sound very reliable to me ...

    You emphasized the "market share of servers" (since it was not included in the quote - then it would be understandable what you meant).

    Your question is yes,

    The server market share at the end of 2018 (and in the 1 quarter of 2019) is 97% for Intel and only 3% for AMD.

    I understand from the sources on the web, at the moment, a huge mass of invitations to epyc servers across the globe, based in Rome.

    An element that is likely to signal signs of market share in this year's 4 quarter.

    There will be a huge erosion that will change the map 97 / 3 a significant percentage.

  203. Nowadays enoughOne security breach To scramble the cards, I'm not saying they'll find (and that's valid for Intel's answer, too), but today these things are revealed in less time because there are far more incentives to look for vulnerabilities. Gone are probably the days that allowed Intel to carry around with a security breach 25 years.

    When EPYC reaches a market share of 15%, then Intel will have a sense of aura. Until then, Intel's control of the market is strong enough (control is not only measured in performance or sales volume in a pace marker, but in the entire logistics, business relationships and all its folklore) to cope with this crisis. Of course, if they did not come up with a convincing answer in the next two or three years, the pit would deepen the theoretical situation. Don't know if I would bet on it as a particularly likely scenario.

    AMD whose resources and market dominance are smaller in size than those of Intel survived a decade of irrelevance. No doubt she has a winning product at the moment and will gradually bite into Intel's market share, and rightly so, but it's too early to eulogize Intel, which by the way won't be good for the market. Replacing one monopoly with another achieves nothing.

  204. Even worse (if) God forbid,

    This is our angle of vision Israel, which relies quite a bit on product exports and workplaces, on Intel's ability.

    Woe to us if it is God forbid it will hurt.

  205. Quote of nec_000

    Even worse (if) God forbid,

    This is our angle of vision Israel, which relies quite a bit on product in exports and workplaces, on the ability of Intel.

    Woe to us if it is God forbid it will hurt.

    I didn't quite understand what it meant here ... .. ^^^^^

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